The Russians are coming! The Russians are coming!

The lede on today’s Sun editorial is straight out of the weekend’s media conspiracy gristmill:

The massive stakes of this year’s election edged up even more after last week’s revelation regarding President Donald Trump, Rudy Giuliani and Russian interference in U.S. politics.

On Thursday, The Washington Post reported that in 2019, Trump’s own national security adviser warned him that Giuliani had become a tool for Russian intelligence to relay misinformation to Trump on Joe and Hunter Biden. According to the story, Trump’s response was to shrug his shoulders and say, “That’s Rudy.”

If that story is true, it’s damning.

The editorialist could have added another phrase common in the liberal media these days when discussing allegations against Democrats: “Without evidence.”

We must have missed the liberal media talking points meeting.

According to NBC News, The Associated Press, CNN, Salon and others, the FBI is investigating whether the leaked Hunter Biden e-mails are part of a possible Russian effort to spread disinformation ahead of the presidential election.

Salon flatly stated there was no evidence former Vice President Joe Biden had engaged in wrongdoing related to his son’s business dealings.

The Sun also claimed that “Trump and the right-wing conspiracy theorists have pushed a widely discredited claim that the former vice president used his influence to pressure the firing of Ukraine’s top prosecutor to protect Hunter Biden and the company from investigation into corruption.”

Apparently Joe Biden boasting about it — “I said, I’m telling you, you’re not getting the billion dollars. I said, you’re not getting the billion. I’m going to be leaving here in, I think it was about six hours. I looked at them and said: I’m leaving in six hours. If the prosecutor is not fired, you’re not getting the money. Well, son of a bitch. (Laughter.) He got fired. And they put in place someone who was solid at the time.” — is insufficient evidence.

Also, pay no heed to the millions of dollars Hunter Biden raked in from selling his connections with the Obama administration to Russians, Ukrainians and Chinese.

As the aforementioned and much maligned Giulianai noted in an interview with the Daily Caller, Hunter Biden may have violated the Foreign Agents Registration Act by meeting with government officials in secret on behalf of foreign entities.

Former Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort was sentenced to 47 months in prison for failing to disclose his own financial dealings with Ukraine.

Giuliani was quoted as saying of Hunter Biden: “He never registered as a foreign agent and that’s exactly what Paul Manafort went to prison for, and unless we’re going to stick with this Republicans go to prison and Democrats don’t when they do the same or worse, then he belongs in prison the way Paul Manafort was put in prison.”

The spin on both sides is dizzying.

29 comments on “The Russians are coming! The Russians are coming!

  1. Rincon says: says, “Trump Twists Facts on Biden and Ukraine”.
    Since you’re saying the same thing that Trump is, Factcheck says YOU are twisting the facts. Can you tell me why they’re wrong, and why the Atlantic is lying?

    The most obvious difference is a fact everyone can agree upon. Trump’s request and threat to Ukraine’s leader was covert, and was clearly for personal gain; Biden’s was above board, done at the request of the Obama Administration, and with the blessings of several allies of ours (now former allies).

    The time line also does not fit the Conservative propaganda: “Lutsenko, who resigned in August, said a corruption investigation into leaders of Ukrainian gas companies concerned a potential money-laundering transaction that had occurred before Hunter Biden joined the board.” Are you telling me that this is untrue? If you cannot demonstrate that Factcheck is lying, please tell me why I should take your word over theirs.

    Lobbying for foreign countries requires registration with the Justice Department under the Foreign Agents Registration Act (FARA). Manafort did not do so at the time of his lobbying. I believe Hunter Biden was just a member of the Board of directors of Burisma, which requires no registration. Manafort was also convicted for witness tampering and obstruction of justice. You somehow failed to mention that, so I thought I would help 🙂

    There’s more, but I thought this would be a good start.

    This is right out of the Conservative propaganda playbook, the same playbook that foamed at the mouth over the deaths of 4 U.S. citizens in Benghazi, while ignoring the deaths of thousands of U.S. citizens in Puerto Rico, and more than 100,000 deaths of citizens here due to the blatant incompetence of the Trump Administration. Someone tell me how any rational human being can buy this garbage.

  2. Fox: “Director of National Intelligence John Ratcliffe on Monday said that Hunter Biden’s laptop ‘is not part of some Russian disinformation campaign.’”

  3. Anonymous says:

    “WASHINGTON — Republicans hesitated on Monday to embrace President Trump’s choice for the director of national intelligence, and some privately expressed doubts about his potential confirmation, echoing concerns of experts and Democrats that he was too inexperienced and too partisan.

    Mr. Trump’s pick, Representative John Ratcliffe of Texas, could face an uphill battle, Senate Republicans said in private conversations. Several said they wanted to keep the intelligence post apolitical, and Mr. Ratcliffe will need to show he can move beyond the die-hard conservative persona that has made him a star in the House and on Fox News but less well known among senators who will decide whether to confirm him.”

    “I’m shocked, shocked to find gambling going on here”

  4. Anonymous says:

    “Perhaps the clearest sign that three-term Texas congressman Ratcliffe is manifestly unqualified to serve as the nation’s director of national intelligence isn’t the fact that he embellished his résumé, nor that only a minority of the US Senate would vote to confirm him, nor that the first time he was floated for the post last summer he was so soundly rejected that he withdrew almost immediately.

    Instead, it’s that years before just 49 senators of the 116th Congress—all Republicans—voted to confirm him last week as the head of the nation’s 17 intelligence agencies and the president’s top intelligence adviser, the 108th Congress tried to stop a man like Ratcliffe from assuming that very role in the first place. They wrote into the law that created the job, 50 US Code § 3023, “Any individual nominated for appointment as Director of National Intelligence shall have extensive national security expertise.”

    And John Ratcliffe definitely doesn’t.”

  5. Rincon says:

    It’s a joke about Vin, right? A commentator on a network with a “mixed” record on accuracy, who uses Breitbart as his reference source for his story – and you expect me to believe it? Would you be persuaded if I presented you with a story from the Enquirer or the Globe?

  6. Steve says:

    Thing about Vin Suprynowicz is his bullshit meter.
    Sure he cites far right extremist sources, but those are for reference opinion, not fact.
    One has to acknowledge his BS meter in the body of his opinion has some solid reasons for pegging.

  7. Athos says:

    Rin, when did Conservatives ignore “the deaths of thousands of U.S. citizens in Puerto Rico, and more than 100,000 deaths of citizens here due to the blatant incompetence of the Trump Administration.”? Are you sure you’re not remembering Bush/Clinton and Haiti?

    Benghazi was a real thing. Susan Rice went on 5 Sunday shows and lied to the American people about why Chris Stevens was murdered. And Zero DID go to a Fundraiser in Las Vegas 9/12/12 (the next day). All lied or obfuscated about what caused Ambassador Stevens death.

    Your logic about “covert” and “above board” are laughable! And I would think that after spending 2 years and $25million, you people would stop with the “Russia! Russia! Russia!” malarky. But Trump has bent your minds SOOOO much that you don’t care there is a concerted effort to squash free speech in OUR country by our own media!

    Your hatred for all things “Orange Man Bad” you can’t condemn a movement that belongs in Communist China. Or North Korea!

    And right on cue comes Anny to misdirect! Nice try, anny! Don’t attack Adam Shifless for lying about information he doesn’t have! Why, Shifty is so compelling, isn’t he?

    Thomas, THANK YOU for the Vin fix! No offense, but he was the best part of the Sunday “View” section way back in the day. (It was called the View back then, wasn’t it? ) Plus didn’t he do Wed. editorials? Anyway, now I got his blog.

    And Rinny, Vin Suprynowicz (say it with me, now!) just makes sense (in a world of “It depends on what the meaning of the word ‘is’ is.”) Something sadly lacking in today’s over lawyered, woke, nuclear hurt feelings world.

  8. Anonymous says:

    This seems normal; a president demanding that the Attorney General of the country do something before the election that will negatively affect his opponent in the election.

    Trump. Is. Evil. The only question is whether republicans that support him are complicit or also evil.

    ““We have got to get the attorney general to act. He’s got to act and he’s got to act fast,” Trump said on “Fox & Friends,” citing a New York Post report about Hunter Biden’s business dealings. Trump called on Barr to “appoint somebody” to handle the matter.

    “This is major corruption and this has to be known about before the election,” Trump said.”

  9. Athos says:

    I must admit, Anny, you guys are slick. Accuse the Chief Law Enforcement Man (Trump) of being “Evil” for calling attention to the Democrat nominee’s son’s (R.Hunter Biden’s) corrupt dealings that may have involved the Nominee(Joseph Biden) in corruption, bribery, and leave that Nominee (Sleepy Joe) open to blackmail by the Chinese Government (the real threat to US in today’s world)

    AND you’ve got all the mainstream media in lockstep singing the same tune (all to the same words)!

    Did you really think you’d fool the American public by shutting this story out and being first to say “Trump. Is. Evil.”? You folks have been screaming “Orange Man Bad” and “Russia!Russia!Russia!” for the past 3 years and 11.5 months.

    Do you REALLY think John Q. Public is that dumb? Or is that just projection?

  10. Anonymous says:

    “I love my uneducated voters.”

    Trump’s last bastion keeping him out of a black site (for now) are America’s dumbest, whitest, least educated, who he can actually mock, to their faces, and be sure they will still vote for him.

    Leastways, paraphrasing Thomas here “if they can read the bottom of their boot to get the piss out of it”.

    Stupid republicans.

  11. Athos says:

    Leftist place no value in truth. (Dennis Prager)

    Liberals and conservatives value and desire truth. (Dennis Prager, again)

    The democrat party is a leftist organization.

    The truth is there for all to see. Although when Joe said he was going to end the oil business, he was (for once) being truthful. It’s a shame Leftist don’t simply say what they want to do and let the voter decide!

  12. Athos says:

    BTW, anny, any truth to you getting a sweet gig in Robert Reich’s Dept. of “Truth and Reconciliation”?

    That’s got a real “Leftist” feel to it, huh?

  13. Anonymous says:

    I love my uneducated voters

  14. Athos says:

    So THAT’S what happened to your clever little – “….How stupid can you be

    was never intended as a personal challenge to every republican in the world….”!!!!

    It morphed into “….I love my uneducated voters…”

    Oh Anny, you just are FULL of snappy little “bon mots”, aren’t you?
    (Is Rinny in your safe space with you?)

  15. Rincon says:

    The safe space is in Australia and New Zealand, who managed to keep their COVID 19 deaths near zero, while maintaining better economies than ours. Possibly it’s because political conservatives in Australia and New Zealand cooperated with an intelligent government plan and believe it or not, they actually wear masks! Our country’s leadership though, is anti science and so, refused to take meaningful action when it would have done the most good. They don’t even bother with masks themselves. As a result, we have over 200,000 dead from a disease which our President termed, a “hoax”.

    As for my “safe space”. I play soccer indoors every Sunday, and played all summer outdoors twice a week, with proper precautions. No incidents for what it’s worth. Hardly cowering in a corner. In the meantime, none of my 23 employees have developed COVID, even though we have 50-70 people visiting us every day. Again, proper precautions. My wife’s employer picked up COVID himself as did one of his 5 workers separately. My wife is the only one there that wears a mask, and tells me the rest are pretty careless. Coincidence?

  16. Athos says:

    I was going to lead off with a bit of snark, Rin, like asking, “You wear N95 masks?” but I’m so tired of all this Totalitarian, fear based shaming that I’ll just pass. I have no plans to move to New Zealand or Australia, (even IF they’d have me) so all I can say is “good for them”.

    And if you move there, good for you.

    I live in Las Vegas and if we can’t open up our tourist based industry and allow people to congregate WITHOUT MASKS OR SISALUCK’S MASK POLICE, and let kids attend those crazy clubs and spectators (other than “suite owners”) attend RAIDER’s football games, etc. etc. – my home town of Las Vegas IS TOAST!

    So I applaud your good fortune and diligence in not contracting this Chinese Virus. You do realize that the masks are NOT to keep you from getting the Kung Flu, but to prevent someone that has it (but doesn’t realize it) from infecting others, right? Thus 85% of people catching Covid-19 from China during the month of July WERE wearing masks. (according to the CDC)

    And for the record, no one in my family has contracted the disease (5 people) nor any of my extended family. I’ve lost 2 friends to cancer (and couldn’t visit either in the hospital) and 1 friend from work that died of that damn disease cooked up in a Chinese Lab, but no one else in my orbit has died or been hospitalized.

    And that doesn’t really surprise me given that over the last 50+years of knowledgable awareness I know of NO ONE that’s died of the flu. And that’s with over 360,000 deaths in the last 10 years (CDC figures)

  17. Rincon says:

    Funny, over in China, they claim the US Department of Defense released the virus over there. Some of them believe their propaganda, and some of us believe ours. Anyone who excuses a death rate 17 times greater than necessary is a die hard fanatic and cannot be reasoned with. At least you’re loyal.

  18. Rincon says:

    “Thus 85% of people catching Covid-19 from China during the month of July WERE wearing masks. (according to the CDC)” Are you referring to Americans or Chinese? Can you give me your source? The statement is opaque to me.

    So you lost one coworker to COVID 19. And your point is….?

  19. Athos says:

    So you take China’s side in this, eh Rinny? Ever heard of the term, Useful Idiot? That would apply to you. The disease if from China. The CDC study was of Americans. You can google it. Unlike leftist, the truth has meaning to me.

    And my point is that people die. Around 7,000 per day in the US alone. I’ve lost 2 friends in the same time frame as my one co-worker. The big C used to be the real killer (along with Alzheimer’s)

    I’m not saying this Kung Flu isn’t real. But I refuse to live in fear and cower in my basement like sleepy Joe. But MY DEMOCRAT GOVERNOR, doesn’t give me a choice. Mortgage payments are real, as are utility bills, and food. Give people the CHOICE to work or hide. In my opinion we have surrendered too much of our freedoms for the false promise of security. I say false because people wearing masks are STILL CATCHING THIS DISEASE.

    And it really boggles my mind how people like you, Rin, would take the side of communist China over the USA. It’s no wonder you hate Trump with such a passion. Seeing MAGA must make you convulse, huh?

  20. Rincon says:

    Does it even enter your head that maybe, just maybe I don’t believe the propaganda of either side? That is the case, so no, you cannot realistically say I’m taking China’s side.

    Your point is that, “people die”, but you say you’re not minimizing 200,000 deaths. Judges? Zonk. Sorry Athos, you’re outtathere.

    You refuse to live in fear of the virus? Big deal! Only a few of us are panic stricken. Most of us just want to intelligently manage the risk. I wear seat belts. Does that mean I live in fear of driving? Man, how do you come up with these grand leaps of pseudologic? I have to ask you what the ethical difference is between someone who refuses to distance and/or wear a mask and a drunk driver. In both cases, we don’t know if any one individual will kill someone, but we do know that if large numbers engage in these sorts of reckless behavior, many will die. People pay huge fines, get their driving privileges yanked, and even go to prison for drunk driving, but we won’t give out even the equivalent of a parking ticket for not wearing a mask, and you think the Nazis are coming. Get real!

    You also complain about economic effects of controlling the virus, but have said absolutely nothing about the fact that Australia’s economy is doing better than ours BECAUSE they controlled the virus early. Same with New Zealand, Taiwan, etc.

    You say people wearing masks are still catching the disease. How did you figure that out, Sherlock? Of course it can happen. Nothing provides absolute protection if the exposure is massive enough. It’s like refusing to wear a helmet while doing hazardous work, claiming that some people wearing helmets have been killed. Again, pseudologic.

    BTW, your attitude is a common phenomenon. It’s called risk compensation. When safety measures are in place, people often feel more safe and then increase their risky behavior. I assume you know very few people who have tested positive – say, less than 10% of those you know. Is that correct? It is for me. So if we got 200,000 dead bodies when perhaps only 10% have acquired the disease, then how many would we have had if all of us had come down with it? I’ll wait while you run the numbers….You take the prevention measures that you condemn for granted. Without them, the numbers would have been far higher. Let me guess your answer: As with global warming, a good Conservative drone will simply claim, without a shred of evidence, that preventive measures have no effect. So simple!

  21. Athos says:

    My city of Las Vegas is dying, Rinny. Because of massive lockdowns. No real numbers are available (or so buried they’re next to impossible to find). “So if we got 200,000 dead bodies when perhaps only 10% have acquired the disease, then how many would we have had if all of us had come down with it? I’ll wait while you run the numbers…” You can wait as long as you like, Rin, cause the TRUTH is we have absolutely no knowledge of how many people acquired this disease.

    Or do you claim that YOU know?

    Check with Disney in LA.(Going Broke) Where their governor is going to limit Thanksgiving at peoples homes to just 3 people! (Sorry, Granny. Covid-19 you know)

    And you still can’t bring yourself to blame China, can you Rin? I can’t speak for those lands “down under” but the US is doing better than any Europe nation (not that our MSM would EVER report that, hmmm?) in terms of overall deaths and economic health.

    And all your early projections (seat belts? helmets?) are simply that…projections of yours.

    Here’s one that I think speaks to the subject: More children have died from auto accidents than have died from the Wuhan Flu. (approximately 60 to 1). Governors have banned in school learning (at least in this state) because “think if just ONE child dies” but these same cretins have not stopped driving their little darlings around town.

    And why are blue states #s higher than red states? Both in deaths and unemployment? Trump properly ALLOWED the Governors to run their own states. So blame the governors for the deaths (blue states – 176,000; red states-44,000) Trump’s not the boogey man, Rin.

  22. Rincon says:

    Same baloney. Whining and crying that you can’t celebrate Thanksgiving (even though there is no enforcement mechanism, so everybody can do whatever they please anyway), but disregarding 200,000 or so dead. Do we know how many people have died from COVID? Hell, yes, within reasonable bounds. Only lunatic conspiracy theorists would dispute death certificates that happen to match the number of excess deaths seen this year. Those same Conservative idiots that won’t accept something as well documented as COVID related deaths are totally gung ho though, for wacky political theories that have little to no evidence to support serious consideration. Saying that tax cuts pay for themselves comes to mind. I believe the vast majority of COVID-attributed deaths are accompanied by a positive COVID test, which has very few false positives. Do you have ANY evidence whatsoever that deaths from COVID are commonly reported with no positive test – except for the first two months or so when testing patients wasn’t feasible (something about the US being far behind the rest of the world in producing tests)? I didn’t think so.

    I had one moron tell me the deaths from COVID are overstated, so I asked him who was doing the falsifying. He said the doctors, because they get paid more for COVID patients. I asked who paid extra for this. He said the government, so I said, let me get this straight. You think the Trump Administration is paying doctors extra to falsify records in order to make the epidemic look worse than it is? He sort of started to mutter to himself at that point. Looked confused. I’m sure he still believes his fantasy though. Not too different from Jehovah’s witnesses.

  23. Athos says:

    What is wrong with opening up are country, protecting the vulnerable, and getting on with life?

    Is it arguable that a death at 20 is more tragic than a death at 82.4 years of age (the average death of all corona patients)? No one that I know is gleeful that any death is not important. AND it’s a real shame that we’ve gotten so bitter that one side would accuse the other side of being so heartless (and thus the obligatory disclaimer)

    But when the objective goal is the acquisition of absolute power, and the ends justify the means, weaponizing medical science, economics and psychology are to be expected, eh Rinny?

    I have not confirmed it but I did read that medicare and medicaid will re-imburse hospitals $13,000 for a Covid death and $39,000 for a Covid death that was placed on a ventilator. Knowing the Byzantine System of Government Medical Insurance repayments, this does not surprise me. Does it really surprise you?

    And knowing human nature, it wouldn’t surprise me to hear of hospitals counting a motorcycle death as Covid (and it would be interesting to learn if the official cause of death listed for George Floyd was Covid 19!)

    Remember this, Rin, when you go on about “Whining and crying that you can’t celebrate Thanksgiving”- The Government of the United States of America was put in place by “We the People” and as such, are limited by the will of the governed. Not Foucci Not Sisaluck Not Pritzker. And certainly not that nincompoop Any Twosome Newsom are dictators that can try and destroy National Celebrations (unless you want to “peacefully demonstrate”)

    There actions just scream of rank hypocrisy!

  24. Rincon says:

    Firstly, Australia and countries with a similar approach showed us that we could have not only prevented a hundred thousand or more deaths, but saved our economy as well. But even if we were going to open up the country and shelter the vulnerable, then why didn’t Trump make it clear that he wanted to go with that at the beginning? Instead, he said it was a hoax, said that we had it under control, and passed the buck to 50 governors, none of whom had an epidemic advisory panel ready to go. And 50 different plans had no hope of meshing well enough to be effective. It was a clusterfarkle. Trump did not lead. He ignored. He let precious months go by and now, he suddenly has the master plan. What an idiot.

    The CDC says your average age at time of death from COVID is wrong, unless there’s a really wacky distribution. According to their figures, less than a third of those dying were over the age of 84. About 1 in 5 were under the age of 65.

    A study in England supports these figures as well, utilizing excess death statistics. They found that 45-64 year olds had about an 80% higher chance of dying in April, when the epidemic was at its peak. Are these the 82 year olds you were talking about? The death rate for 65-74 year olds was only slightly higher at nearly 100%. 75 and above took the prize with a 130% higher chance of dying. What Conservatives don’t like to believe is that younger patients with high blood pressure, diabetes, obesity, etc., are also at high risk. Even 35-44 year olds had a 1/3 higher chance of dying. (10/24/20 p.71 “When Doctors Disagree”)

    I just gave you my sources. Why can’t you give me yours? Don’t tell me. I think I know.

    “I have not confirmed it but I did read that Medicare and Medicaid will re-imburse hospitals $13,000 for a Covid death and $39,000 for a Covid death that was placed on a ventilator.” I think you should be glad you said you had not confirmed this tripe. Think for a second. If Medicare and Medicaid paid bonuses to hospitals, motivating them to inflate their death stats, wouldn’t that be the doing of the Trump Administration? I’m not sure why they would want to make themselves look all the worse by paying those who would jack the numbers higher. And if you think it’s some bureaucracy thing, then why hasn’t Trump put a stop to it or at least scream about the wasteful government spending? Nope. Quiet as a mouse. Maybe the conspiracy is actually from the Trump Administration! Yeah, that’s it. Just like a B movie. Time to put on the tin foil hat if you believe that! Whatever your source, you should seriously consider avoiding any other drek they put out.

    Amazing that you would say, “The Government of the United States of America was put in place by “We the People” and as such, are limited by the will of the governed.”, when, “Three out of four Americans, including a majority of Republicans, favor requiring people to wear face coverings while outside their homes…” So isn’t it YOU that wants to deny the will of the people, and how about this (I digress)?
    “An August 2019 Fox News poll of registered voters found 90% of respondents favored universal background checks, 81% supported taking guns from at-risk individuals, and 67% favored banning assault weapons.[30]”,67%25%20favored%20banning%20assault%20weapons.

    Once again, Athos is happy to deny the will of the people when it fits into his own extreme, selfish views. Can you say hypocrite?

  25. Athos says:

    Australia is 25 million people spread out over a continent roughly 80% the size of the US. Plus they are in the Southern Hemisphere. If you want a better comparison, why not the European Union?
    You judge Trump from like the dutiful monday morning quarterback. Fauci has held different opinions on this KungFlu, and HE’S THE EXPERT, right?

    Trump didn’t become the dictator (and if memory serves, Cuomo was daring him tell him what to do,.. it seems Democrats all of a sudden discovered the Tenth Amendment) but you don’t recall that, do you? And BTW, Trump didn’t order those elderly back into the nursing homes in NY..Cuomo did, and he STILL hasn’t owned up to it, has he?

    “wouldn’t that be the doing of the Trump Administration?” yes it would, Rin. You win a cookie! Which strikes at the heart of the matter, doesn’t it? With over 9 million employees, the SWAMP runs deep. My guess is that Trump had no idea how deep the rot went. Look at the top of the FBI and the DOJ he had to put with! Even with Barr as AG, there’s still a “resistance” in full force.

    You need to get out more, Rin. People that work and interact with customers are tired of wearing a mask (that have little proven effect) Especially with cases going up despite stringent mask policies. I do have protection from this Chinese pestilence…it’s called an immune system.

    I don’t care what poll you cite because poll questions are asked to elicit the stats the pollsters want.
    Figures can lie, and liars definitely can figure.

    And you still haven’t addressed why you leftist have nothing but hate. All you want to do is destroy this country. Did you run out of Christopher Columbus statues to destroy?

  26. Rincon says:

    Would you keep a coach whose offense throws seventeen times as many interceptions as several other teams and refuses to make changes? I guess you would if he whispered the right things in your ear.

    Funny that you urge me to compare the U.S. to Europe. Let me list a few deaths per 100,000 statistics (not all from Europe): USA: 60.3 South Korea: 0.7, Japan: 1.2, Australia: 3.3,Norway: 5.0, Finland: 6.1, Austria: 8.6, Denmark: 10.9, Germany: 11.3, Israel: 14.0, Switzerland: 20.6, Canada: 24.6, Netherlands: 36.2. So no, Australia is not the only success story. The UK, Spain, and Belgium are all higher than us though. The UK is no surprise though. Their leader took a Trumplike approach.

    “wouldn’t that be the doing of the Trump Administration?” yes it would, Rin. You win a cookie! Which strikes at the heart of the matter, doesn’t it? With over 9 million employees, the SWAMP runs deep.”
    So a major conspiracy, known by the entire tin foil hat crowd, which has gone on for months, has somehow escaped Trump’s attention because he has so many employees to watch over? You win a cookie for the lamest excuse ever.

    Can you show evidence that COVID numbers are drastically inflated? I didn’t think so, but it sure makes an easy excuse. When the facts don’t agree with your theory, just change the facts!

  27. Rincon says:

    Your statement that masks have little proven effect sticks in my craw. Please give me the respect of carefully considering what I have to say.

    Cay you show any proof that masks are not effective? I assume not. OK, so what is the best decision based on what we know?

    Firstly, this discussion wouldn’t be necessary if N95 masks were available, and they could have been by now. The evidence that N95’s are effective is indisputable. So why aren’t N95’s available? Trump. But let’s take that as a given, since the horse is out of the barn on N95’s.

    Although one can always claim there’s no proof of nearly anything, suffice it to say that there are a slew of studies suggesting strongly (I would say proving) that masks are effective. Feel free to look around, but here’s a quote from the University of Maryland: “Fact: Cloth face masks are effective.”,to%20reach%20other%20people.
    Or the Mayo Clinic: “Can face masks help slow the spread of the coronavirus (SARS-CoV-2) that causes COVID-19? Yes, face masks combined with other preventive measures, such as frequent hand-washing and social distancing, help slow the spread of the virus.”

    So, if you still insist that there’s no “proof”, what should the default be? After all, we must decide what to do or not based on imperfect evidence. Our knowledge of physics says that we should expect masks to be effective, even if there was no evidence available at all. Although virus particles are small enough to get through many masks theoretically, in the real world, viruses are not expelled from our mouths as single particles. They are imbedded in droplets of saliva, most which are large enough to be caught in the fibers of even primitive cloth masks. So why should we refuse to use something that physics says should work?

    But what if you’re still not convinced? What should the default be, even if university studies and the physics of particles aren’t convincing to you? Well, try looking at the upside and downside. If we use masks and they actually aren’t effective, what harm is done? We inconvenience millions by having them wear something that many people wear 40 hours a week on their jobs anyway. I can tell you that wearing a mask all day long at work is no big issue for any of my employees. It’s just not a big deal. What is the harm if masks are effective and we fail to wear them? Tens or hundreds of thousands of lives lost, millions of people laying sick in bed who didn’t need to, and a further crippling of our economy.

    So how can masks help our economy? As an example, my indoor soccer games would not take place if players didn’t wear masks. If they weren’t required, many players, including me, wouldn’t sign up. The owner of the facility certainly thinks the masks are worthwhile – they allow him to earn a living. To take it a step further, what if airlines could offer complimentary N95 masks for all passengers? I think it’s safe to say that bookings would rise dramatically. But no, the Conservative powers that be in our country decided that they would rather cripple the airline and tourist industries than to require a simple mask, and as a result, we have a death rate 17 times as high as necessary AND a crippled economy. We hit the daily double!

  28. Rincon says:

    Athos, you recently said something to the effect that Trump is not really divisive as liberals claim he is. If so, then I have to ask, how can anyone say the following statements by Trump, all determined to be false by NBC News, to not be divisive – or is NBC lying on all counts? Trump’s words are in quotes. I’ve deleted some NBC wording for brevity.

    “If you count the legal votes, I easily win, if you count the illegal votes, they can try to steal the election from us.”
    This is entirely false. There’s no evidence that any fraudulent ballots have been counted.

    “Mail-in voting “really destroyed our system, it’s a corrupt system. They want to find out how many votes they need and then they seem to be able to find them.”
    This claim, casting doubt on the integrity of American elections, is false. There’s no evidence of widespread voter fraud, according to numerous studies, and there are a number of safeguards in place to ensure the security of mail ballots and prevent fraud. Ballots are not being found, as Trump claims.

    “In Georgia, a pipe burst in a faraway location, totally unrelated to the location of what was happening, but they stopped counting for four hours, and a lot of things happened.”
    While a pipe burst and it did delay ballot counting for two — not four — hours, there’s no evidence any wrongdoing occurred during this time frame.

    “The election apparatus in Georgia is run by Democrats.”
    False. Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger is a Republican who Trump himself endorsed.

    Of Pennsylvania, “They don’t want us to have any observers.”
    This claim is false, as is this one that the president made later in remarks: “Our campaign has been denied access to observe any counting in Detroit.” In Detroit, absentee ballots were being counted in the convention center and the GOP was allowed 134 poll watchers, according to The Associated Press.

    “It’s amazing how those mail-in ballots are so one-sided,” Trump said during his press conference.

    The president spent months urging his supporters to vote in person, condemning mail voting as fraudulent. More Democrats chose to vote by mail amid the pandemic.
    “We were ahead in vote in North Carolina by a lot, tremendous number of votes and we are still ahead by a lot, but not as many, because they are finding ballots all of a sudden,” Trump said.
    “I won Pennsylvania by a lot, and that gets whittled down to — I think they said we’re up to 90,000.”
    “Likewise in Georgia, I won by a lot,” he said. “In Michigan, we’re way up in Michigan, won the state, in Wisconsin we did likewise, fantastically well, and that got whittled down. In every case, they got whittled down.”

    All of these claims are false. Officials are not “finding ballots” in North Carolina, they are continuing to count ballots. NBC News has characterized Pennsylvania and Georgia as too close to call, and NBC News has projected that Joe Biden won Michigan, and is the apparent winner of Wisconsin.

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