Florida man convicted for trying to convince Hillary backers to vote on the Internet instead of at the polls in 2016

New York state federal prosecutors convinced a jury on Friday to convict West Palm Beach, Fla., online prankster Douglass Mackey, known online as “Ricky Vaughn,” of Conspiracy Against Rights for posting online: “Avoid the Line. Vote from Home,” “Text ‘Hillary’ to 59925,” and “Vote for Hillary and be a part of history.”

Might it be reasonably argued that anyone stupid enough to fall for this prank just might be too stupid to vote?

“Mackey has been found guilty by a jury of his peers of attempting to deprive individuals from exercising their sacred right to vote for the candidate of their choice in the 2016 Presidential Election,” stated United States Attorney Breon Peace, apparently with a straight face. “Today’s verdict proves that the defendant’s fraudulent actions crossed a line into criminality and flatly rejects his cynical attempt to use the constitutional right of free speech as a shield for his scheme to subvert the ballot box and suppress the vote.”

I wonder what they would have thought of President Lyndon B. Johnson’s re-election television commercial that depicted a young girl with a daisy being obliterated by an atom bomb, suggesting Barry Goldwater would lead the country into nuclear war.

The prosecutors press release stated: “As proven at trial, between September 2016 and November 2016, Mackey conspired with other influential Twitter users and with members of private online groups to use social media platforms, including Twitter, to disseminate fraudulent messages that encouraged supporters of presidential candidate Hillary Clinton to ‘vote’ via text message or social media which, in reality, was legally invalid.”

Fox News host Tucker Carlson pointed out that the prosecution failed to put on the witness stand a single Hillary Clinton supporter who fell for the prank and failed to vote.

“After a Manhattan grand jury indicted Joe Biden’s rival in the next presidential race, another jury, also in New York, convicted a Republican social media influencer named Douglass Mackey. What did Mackey do wrong? Well Douglass Mackey’s crime was mocking Hillary Clinton voters online,” Carlson said. “You’re seeing on your screen the meme that Mackey posted on Twitter during the 2016 election. In that meme, Mackey suggests it’s possible to vote for president by text message because only Hillary voters could believe something so absurd. But of course in real life, no one believed that, Mackey’s insult did not alter a single vote in the election. No one has proved otherwise. The government brought forth not a single victim of this crime. It couldn’t.”

Free speech includes the right to ridicule, doesn’t it?

Carlson also noted: “As it turns out, a woman called Kristina Wong posted almost an identical meme that year in the 2016 election but unlike Doug Mackey, Wong voted for Hillary Clinton. … ‘Hey Trump supporters,’ she wrote, ‘skip poll lines and text in your vote.’ Same crime, but the Department of Justice under Joe Biden has shown no interest in prosecuting Kristina Wong. Do you see how this works?”

Meanwhile, Mackey faces up to 10 years in prison.

Douglass Mackey

181 comments on “Florida man convicted for trying to convince Hillary backers to vote on the Internet instead of at the polls in 2016

  1. NYPete says:

    Oddly enough, you left out the fact that on election day almost 4,000 unique phone numbers texted “Hillary” to the text numbers that the defendant used for his deception campaign. (Which is not to say that showing actual success was a necessary element of proving the charge of conspiring to deprive citizens of their right to vote.)

  2. How many of those were pranksters too?

  3. Rolling Stone: “In his opening statement, Mackey’s attorney, Frisch, argued that people only began texting the false text-to-vote number after media outlets covered the disinformation campaign and it became a national news story. Two people texted “Hillary for prison” to the number, he said.”

  4. Bill says:

    It is a sad commentary on contemporary U.S electorate to even think that one voter would be so ignorant to think that it was possible to vote by telephone.

  5. Anonymous says:

    Free Speech can not exist where people bear no responsibility for the things they say.

  6. Bill says:

    Joking is never permitted in totalitarian societies.

  7. Anonymous says:

    Fraud is always permitted in capitalist societies.

  8. Athos says:

    And further down the rabbit hole we go, boys and girls. Petey got the first comment in on this topic. So, for me to ask the rhetorical question, “are NY jurist REALLY this corrupt, ignorant, or totally anti-freedom?” or did this jury pool just have a bad hair day?

    How about it, petey? Do your fellow New Yorkers have absolutely NO regard for our freedoms? Is the constitution a thing of the past? Or is Trump Derangement Syndrome SO strong that it justifies burning down the country? You’re gonna jail a man for not supporting Hillary, but turn a blind eye to the same crime because that hoax SUPPORTS Hillary?

    What’s that called again?

    And how this speaks to the total destruction of our institutions! What sort of ilk must make up the prosecutor, and THE JUDGE that would pursue such a chilling attack on free speech? Not to mention the obvious attack on equal justice under the law? (Hello Kristina Wong!) And the very News media that is suppose to look out, and fight for our 1st amendment rights (and speak TRUTH to power) are celebrating this travesty (and Trump’s indictment)! Tom, didn’t you teach this new crop of newspeople, ethics or morality?

    It’s banana republic tactics like these that I used to laugh at when they were pointed out about South American countries and African nations alike! No one could have imagined them coming to America, but here they are!

    Cheer away, anny! How can I get upset with you, when there is NOTHING COMING out of George Bush, Mitch McConnell, Kevin McCarthy, Paul Ryan, Barr, Romney, Crystal, and all the other “conservative” elites that portend to love this country?

    Buckle up, folks. It would appear that these totalitarian leftist tools want to provoke us freedom loving, law and order types into a conflict, doesn’t it?

  9. NYPete says:

    This feeble attempt to justify what the guy did reminds me of the Trump corporate defense last year that issuing materially false financial statements to prospective lenders is perfectly OK because the loans were paid off.

  10. Rincon says:

    One fact decides guilt or innocence for me. If the texted number sent out a reply saying it was a joke, fair enough. If, on the other hand, it swallowed the texts and especially if it replied that the vote was counted, then I have to define it as fraud, not satire. Anyone know the answer?

    One more detail makes this unlikely to be satire, although I would not convict on this alone. The deceptive message said at the bottom, “The fine print at the bottom of the deceptive image stated: “Must be 18 or older to vote. One vote per person. Must be a legal citizen of the United States. Voting by text not available in Guam, Puerto Rico, Alaska or Hawaii. Paid for by Hillary For President 2016.” That does appear to be a bona fide effort to deceive. Satire did not require that at all.

  11. Bill says:

    This is still a sad commentary that anyone would be so uninformed as to think that they could cast a valid vote in a national election via text or telephone. Talk about low information voters.
    I guess I should look up the statute and read it. I learned some time a long time ago that in order to charge someone with a crime that there had to be a law and it must be defined with specificity.
    I would also be curious to know what the penalty if for a political prank
    I also wonder if f they actually proved that anyone was prevented from voting or was actually “defrauded”.
    Obviously the nene was not true bu then again what is on true on the Internet.
    I read all sorts of stuff on the Internet that is not true. Ads for miracle cures, miracle gadgets and of course the lies of Politiians and of Government and Big Tech, sometimes acting in tandem to reportedly suppress information or promote misinformation. Seems that this unholy alliance existed and was covered upng a cover up of their actions as the Twitter files are revealing.
    I note that the Biden administration was going to come up with
    truth Committees or some such notion to “educate” us. Sounds like something out of Red China or a Soviet Gulag.
    Then of course we have the question of whether “truth” consists merely of agreeing with one side or the other.
    I wonder too, if there was a conspiracy about Trump and the dossier? Is it more serious too send a ludricous spoof on the internet about voting for Hillary is it more serious than paying a law firm to hire a disgraced British spy to assemble a false and fraudulent dossier then pay for it out of campaign funds and lie about it and get fined?
    Is the spoof a bigger crime than the false and fraudulent dossier and while unverifiable it was used to then launch the Mueller Investigation that found no collusion with the Soviets by Trump that said they could find no evidence to charge Trump with anything, yet there was no evidence to say he didn’t do it. Strangely,we just heard it agin today when that great civil Libertarian Nancy Pelosi said that Trump would be permitted to prove himself not guilty. This is now an Orwellian world where the foundation of our law is tat an accused is presumed innocent until proven guilty by a lawful court.
    So, I see that this case may stand for a further erosion of our liberties and in particular free speech.
    We seen to be having difficulty in handling this relatively is new phenomenon, The Internet.
    Rather than making speech a crime, maybe we ought to revert to to old maim, “Caveat Emptor” as to information that is on the internet. Certainly you should do that with any politician. Remeber, it is not a crime for politicians or public officials to lie to you but it is a crime for you to lie to them.
    More and more free speech is simply speech that conforms to certain ideologies. By the way, I have seen prosecutors who when they had a weak case, charge the person with Conspiracy to commit the alleged crime.

  12. Athos says:

    Feeble attempt, petey? So, you ARE saying that your brother NYers are stupid and uninformed? Or is it that they are corrupt and have no problem using the Kangaroo Court to convict your political enemies? Shame on them (and you, petey!)

    Rinny, really? Voters of NY are so stupid they believe a Tweet? How about if you know nothing about civics and how elections are held IN THIS COUNTRY, you don’t get to vote? and despite what petey said, I can’t find any verifiable source that claims 4900 unique numbers texted the hoax. I did find “The Department of Justice seemed to agree that most of Mackey’s trolls were before the election and protected by the First Amendment speech.” Of course that was before Brandon became prez.

    And what of the Hillary voter that did the same thing (you remember, Kristina Wong)? She gets a pass from the Biden justice joke committee because of HER political affiliation? What’s that called again, Rin-man? I thought you were a smart guy and didn’t go for this partisan politic shenanigans? (it just SCREAMS Banana Republic, doesn’t it?)

    Let’s talk about another travesty that happened this last week, shall we? I doubt we’ll never agree on gun confiscation in this country. And I also doubt that it will be some time before we stop supporting and elevating mental illness. So, how about we agree that there is absolutely NO GOOD REASON to shoot a 9 year old? And that anyone that does that is mentally insane and needs to locked up to protect society.

    Any takers?

  13. Anonymous says:

    All I know is that I’m very proud of NY today.

  14. Bill says:

    How sad that you celebrate a sad day that may well end any hope for bipartisanship in the United States. NYC was closed today for this mockery of “justice whereby they leading opposition candidate was arrested and booked for crimes that we have no specifications set forth. This is not about law but is an abuse of the law, We have just entered third world status. Perhaps some local conservative district attorney will now begin to prosecute possible crimes of the Biden Family Enterprises. No wonder that someone that hates our system of Capitalism is happy to see the country torn apart.

  15. Athos says:

    Well said, Bill.

    Anny, I guess agreeing that there is no good reason to murder a 9 year old is something you’re still contemplating, right?

    Here’s hoping that this is something that we can agree upon, and then begin to build the real repair of our great country (because obviously, Biden isn’t getting it done, is he?)

    The one Kate Smith sang about, way back then.

  16. Bill says:

    Thanks Athos for the kind words. I found Anon’s use of use of “God Bless America” somewhat ironic since he hates capitalism and obviously does not like America very much.
    When the FBI raided Trump’s home in Maralago the President of El Salvador wondered what the U.S. would have said if he had raided the home of his political opponent. That raid was third world politics and this latest assault is a total abdication of any moral authority to lecture or intervene in other countries affairs.
    We still don’t know what the underlying crime might be that the D.A. is charging Trump with. It looks like a book keeping error at the most which is not a felony.

  17. Anonymous says:

    I don’t know that there is an unbiased person in this country who would claim that the former president has not committed any number of crimes for which he has not, until today, been charged with.

    It reflects poorly on a country which prides itself on equality under the law that this is true.

    That today, one jurisdiction perhaps more familiar with the crimes of this individual than any other would stand up and say we cannot allow the elite to flaunt our laws any longer.

    This makes me proud as an American and I salute NY in particular, and the country as a whole, on this day.

  18. Anonymous says:

    Demonstrating how this prosecution is just another day in the DA’s office.

    Trump is but the 30th Defendant that the DA in NY has charged so far THIS YEAR with the crimes he is charged with.

    “The books and records counts laid out in the charging papers against Mr. Trump are the bread and butter of the D.A.’s office. Mr. Trump, who pleaded not guilty to all charges on Tuesday, is the 30th defendant to be indicted on false records charges by Mr. Bragg since he took office just over a year ago, with the D.A. bringing 151 counts under the statute so far. Indeed, the Trump Organization conviction and the Weisselberg plea included business falsification felonies.”

  19. Bill says:

    There is still no bill of particulars of the offenses charged against Trump. What is he specifically being charged with? Nobody knows.
    At best, this would be a clerical error which if anything is a misdemeanor.
    Bragg won’t prosecute many crimes against property and people. Bragg does seem to have a vendetta against businesses and business people for so called “white collar” crime but is utterly Progressive and lenient towards habitual criminals.
    Bragg, unethically ran his campaign on his promise to get Trump. That sounds like a political vendetta and is right out of the Soviet playbook of the pages of Stalin’s oppression when Larenry Beria said: “Show me the man and I’ll find you the crime.”

  20. Athos says:

    Anny, you’re such a troll!! I’m willing to bet you just posted the Star Spangle Banner without listening to it, didn’t you?? Come on, now, anny…..do you really expect ANYONE to believe a red diaper doper baby like yourself could stand to listen to our National Anthem OR Kate Smith singing “God Bless America” without having a seizure?

    You are such a hoot. It’s a shame there’s too many like you out there actively planning the destruction of America the Free.

    Why is that, Anny? What do you hope to gain seeing Trump indicted? Where do you think this strategy goes? To what end do you (and your kind) seek?

  21. Anonymous says:

    I’m old enough to remember when republicans claimed the title of family values and then elected a serial adulterer and sexual predator who is being prosecuted for paying off a porn star (and marrying one besides) and then fraudulently reporting that payoff as a legal fee.

    And I’m also old enough to remember when republicans claimed to be for law and order until the same serial adulterer and sexual predator was made to stand for just ONE of the many crimes he committed during his lifetime.

    When Lindsey Graham told you that if you elected Donald Trump as president you would destroy the republican party it might have been the one bit of truth/wisdom that ever passed out of that hypocrites mouth.

    And you cheer him as the word conservative is twisted into a curse.

  22. Rincon says:

    Amazing how firm your opinions are about the Trump indictment when you do not know the details of the case, such as the specific 34 felony charges. More often than not, I tend to believe in a jury, who has seen all evidence presented than I do in reports by media.. For now, I wait.

    I agree that some voters are very gullible. Look at how many STILL believe the 2020 election was stolen when even Fox News didn’t believe it – maybe because there was almost no meaningful evidence to back up the charge.

    Definition of fraud: ” intentional perversion of truth in order to induce another to part with something of value or to surrender a legal right”
    The definition does not include anything about a victim being naive. If it did, most con men would never be charged.
    I repeat: If the text or Email voting attempt was met with anything other than a disclaimer or clarification, the definition of fraud has been met. If we cannot find that information, then any opinions we hold about it are garbage.

  23. Athos says:

    To hear morals preached by a lunatic, child mutilating, baby murdering Alinski-ite is rich, Anny. Show us YOUR family values before you try to false accuse us, OK?

    What Trump brought to the table, and I’m hoping he can still deliver, is the “everyman” understanding. “We” conservatives are tired of being targeted by the IRS (Tea party anyone?), being told that our cities burning down is “mostly peaceful protest” and the suspension of Covid Lockdowns because some thug died in Minnesota, while “conservatives” have rotted in jail for over 2 years pending charges over a kerfuffle in DC that we STILL are waiting on the surveillance footage (and what was Ray Epps REALLY doing there, eh??) Our values have been spit on, derided, and made fun of by government, the media, Hollywood, the college campuses and the public schools all the while the values you’ve been promoting are failed, ruinous, anti God and anti freedom.

    and now, we see a city DA bring charges up on the Republican Presidential candidate, breaking a 230+year precedent (while Hillary gets a slap on the wrist, and Hunter Biden doesn’t get the smallest look from Justice) and just exactly what is the charge, again, Rinny? Did Trump take bribes from Ukraine, China, Russia or anyone? Did Trump murder someone while in office? Did Trump sell secrets to an enemy? Get a BJ from a 23 year old intern in the Oval office??

    What is this heinous crime that Trump did that a City DA has to bring up charges on him (and set a precedent)????

    And I hate to break it to you, anny, but anyone from the party of Bill Clinton should NOT be throwing around phrases like, “a serial adulterer and sexual predator..”, ya think??

    Got a news flash for ya, fellas. We are NOT going to be civil with monsters like you. That Republican party is dead. You people are UNHINGED. You believe if you shut out ANY opposing narratives to your godless ideology, then it will all become true!

    But whether you shut us up or not, you can’t change reality because you want to. The simple Truth is …..there really is a God, and you aren’t Him..

    Oh, and one more thing, Rinny…….there is no way Trump gets a fair trial in the “big Apple”. Any more than Derek Chauvin could get a fair trial in Minneapolis.

  24. Athos says:

    Here’s an interesting article that highlights some serious concerns I’ve voiced over the years, and the RNC’s reluctance to properly address….


    Tell me what ya think! 1,000 registered voters from a vacant lot? And our AG can’t see the potential voter fraud?

  25. We shall see if they can pull it off.

  26. Anonymous says:

    “All I need you to do is find 11,780 votes…”

  27. NYPete says:

    Fine with me if you want to continue with your wackadoodle election fraud stuff instead of rethinking the extreme Republican positions on abortion and gun safety. That will really help you win elections.

  28. Athos says:

    Cris Rock did a special on Netflix where he accurately called out abortion for what it is…..murdering a baby. So tell me again how “extreme” it is to be against infanticide?

    As to “gun safety” I will agree with you that mentally insane people should be locked up and not given the opportunity to use a gun.

    And, Trump lost the 2020 election by just under 44,000 total votes (in 3 key states). The election laws were illegally changed to accommodate mail in ballots (they were NOT passed by the legislature) and the Hunter laptop story was suppressed, otherwise 17% of the voters would not have cast their ballots for Biden….had they only had access to the Hunter Biden laptop story.

    And if we don’t correct these voter rolls (where 1000 people can use a vacant lot for their ballot address) then the Rs don’t deserve another win…even as lunatic the Ds have become. Actually, divorced from Reality would be a better descriptor for the Ds, don’t ya think?

  29. Rincon says:

    Athos, I had to be a little suspicious of your source claiming that 1,000 votes were registered on vacant land. Interesting that it was such a round number. Then I had to ask, where is the rest of the story? Didn’t the Republicans pick up the cause and take it to court? Didn’t the evil socialistic justice system thwart the Republicans’ efforts to arrive at a fair verdict? Come on. I mean, this has the makings of a grand saga – unless maybe it’s just not true. Wondering that, I checked your source. Here’s what I found:

    Clicking on your link, I came to a story by the American Thinker, an apparently questionable source of information since, according to Wikipedia, “Faced with a lawsuit from Dominion Voting Systems. Lifson acknowledged that the site had relied upon “discredited sources who have peddled debunked theories”. The American Thinker likewise admitted that its election claims were “completely false and have no basis in fact” and that “it was wrong for us to publish these false statements.”

    Nevertheless, I clicked on the link in the American Thinker for the vacant land votes claim. I was taken to a graph labeled, OmegaforAmerica.com. I couldn’t find any meaningful about this apparently small organization. This was the American Thinker’s great source? No wonder they have to retract their stories.

    Since I can find no evidence that the American Thinker is anything but a glorified blog, I have to conclude it’s just FAKE NEWS.

  30. Rincon says:

    Come to think of it Athos, I have to ask why you would consider it a major symptom of a rotting society, when it is claimed that some idiot falsified 1,000 voter registrations out of a couple of hundred million real ones, yet you seem sanguine about the largest news carrier in our nation (Fox) deliberately broadcasting and backing stories it knew to be false, even though those stories had the potential to tear our nation apart.

  31. NYPete says:

    Please keep at it. Nominate candidates & judges who advocated government-mandated birthing, assault weapons in shopping malls and who try to overturn elections they lost by seven million votes.
    It is a great way to attract the young voters you need to replace you as you drop off.

  32. Anonymous says:

    “You shall not replace us!”
    -America Firsters

  33. Athos says:

    rin, if you don’t wish to look at the data, that’s fine. The website is https://www.omega4america.com , but you would know that if you actually read the American Thinker article. Nevada sent out 1.8million ballots for the last election, of which just under 1million voted. It is beyond credibility that 1.8 million ballots reached their intended voters, seeing how Las Vegas is such a transient town. We are also filled with illegal aliens that can now receive a state drivers license and get automatically registered to vote.

    THAT is why so many of us have no confidence in election integrity. And it doesn’t take “”a couple of hundred million real one” votes to swing the election. The Nevada democrat Senator beat the Adam Laxalt by 9,000 votes (and Laxalt was ahead 3 days after the election, but finally lost after “all” the votes came in!)

    But that doesn’t bother you, does it, rinny? What does election integrity matter to someone that has loosed from reality and choses to live in fantasy world? (What is a woman, anyway? And why do you choose to go after our kids?)

    As to Fox news, where was your concern for “Fake news” during the 2 years of Steele Dossier misdirection? If you’re really interested in why Fox did what they did, it all has to do with ratings and loosing audience share to those that did say what the upset conservative voter base wanted to hear.

    Kind of like MSNBC and CNN, when Hillary lost, see? Our news media is broken. Along with the schools of higher learning, those in power in government, our law enforcement, our entertainment world (don’t get me started on what passes as “music and art” today!) and even our churches….all is corrupt and interested in keeping hold of their power.

    petey, with your wackadoodle party in power, soon, there won’t be any more “young ones” to corrupt. It’s called “reproductive biology”!

    Keep on trolling, anny! Your ignorance is only exceeded by your total corruption.

  34. NYPete says:

    This week’s Second Amendment moment:four shot dead, nine wounded in Louisville.
    Assault weapon, natch.
    Let’s hope for Thomas Mitchell’s sake that the autopsy photos will be released.

  35. Athos says:

    petey! Do you kiss your Mom with that mouth? Or are you trying to go for the “anny-troll” look?

    Epic fail, dude!

  36. Anonymous says:

    A questionable source exhibits one or more of the following: extreme bias, consistent promotion of propaganda/conspiracies, poor or no sourcing to credible information, a complete lack of transparency, and/or is fake news. Fake News is the deliberate attempt to publish hoaxes and/or disinformation for profit or influence (Learn More). Sources listed in the Questionable Category may be very untrustworthy and should be fact-checked on a per-article basis. Please note sources on this list are not considered fake news unless specifically written in the reasoning section for that source. See all Questionable sources.

    Overall, we rate the American Thinker, Questionable based on extreme right-wing bias, promotion of conspiracy theories/pseudoscience, use of poor sources, and several failed fact checks.


  37. Athos says:

    We can ALWAYS count on anny for some comic relief! The Media Bias Fact Checker, eh? That’s rich. Have some fun seeing the spin they put on such venerable news sources as The NY Times, MSNBC, and CNN! You know, those bringers of news that told us the Steele Dossier was serious news (and just had to be true!) or the “mostly peaceful protests” from the scam artist BLM, or Hunter Biden’s laptop is Russian disinformation (cause there are 51 high ranking intelligence officials that say it’s true!)

    I don’t seem to remember any retractions, do you?

    I didn’t have the stomach to see what lies they’d tell about ABC. After all, according to Terry Moran, those 9 year olds had it coming, cause Tennessee passed those anti transgender surgery for kids, don’t ya know?

    Delusional Leftist, have you no shame?

    Oh, and petey, it would appear your Louisville shooter was NOT a Trump supporter. Kind of kills that story for ya, huh? (you and all of the Lame Stream Media)

  38. NYPete says:

    Hard to believe, but it seems that all kinds of mentally ill people can commit massacres if they have easy access to assault-type weaponry. I wonder what could possibly be done about it. Nothing at all, I suppose.

  39. Athos says:

    What a ridiculous statement, petey. Which mass murdering person was NOT mentally ill? Kinda goes hand in hand, wouldn’t you think?

    You know what happens when a parent rats out their child as wanting to kill people, right? The State MAY take little Johnny away for some studies and evaluations, but within days, he’s right back home. All because we’re in the age of big pharma and there’s a pill for every ill. Except that’s all a lie to make multi millionaires out of drug companies (and who cares if our kids are damaged?) Greed and Corruption!

    How about we lock them up? Like they used to do many years ago? I think we used to call them “insane asylums”. But that hurt the delicate sensibilities of our elite masters, didn’t it?

    For a side benefit, it might just end our “homeless” problem, too!

  40. Rincon says:

    Athos: You and I both know that one can find just about any lie of any kind on the Web, so how do you intend to decide what is accurate even honest? So far as I can tell, your “source”, omega4america.com is a Web site, with no evidence of reliability. I can find no information about it other than from its own site. If that represents your standard, I can get some environmental “information” from the Greenpeace Web site and we can discuss global warming.

    It would be interesting if you elaborated on your skepticism regarding mediabiasfactcheck. Do you dispute their assessments of left vs right wing or do you dispute their accuracy ratings? Or something else? Any on what basis? Are you still content that Fox News is accurate after revelations from the Dominion court case? Mediabias has longed termed their accuracy “mixed”, which is 3rd out of 6 levels.

  41. NYPete says:

    I see. So we are going to build lots and lots of old fashioned insane asylums for anyone who is being treated for depression or bipolar disorder. Yep, makes sense.

  42. Athos says:

    Where do you stand on the mental illness that is being foisted on our society that allows a person to play God and chose their gender? Why would anyone be permitted to use any other pronoun than those that have served mankind for millennium? Do you believe in erasing women, and allowing men to dominate women’s sports?

    For that matter, what news sites reported on the lie for over 3 years that Trump was a Russian agent?

    What news sites report that our country’s real origin was a negative one in 1619? Do you believe that Rinny? Did you see 120 days of rioting (in the midst of “covid lockdowns”) that burned cities and killed people but our “slightly left of center” news sites reported as “mostly peaceful protests”(according to Mediabias)?

    Any questions trouble your grasp on what’s real? Personally, my common sense tells me mediabias is a tool of the “tear down America” movement that is now coming out into the open. They’re BIASED!

    petey, you’re an ignoramus. If you wish to hold a discussion about what can be done with mentally ill mass shooters, and mentally ill homeless drug addicts, don’t go to ridiculous extremes…..it makes a person believe you only want to burn it all down.


  43. Men should not be allowed to compete in women’s sports.

  44. NYPete says:

    Athos, wipe the spittle off your chin.

  45. Athos says:

    Clever petey! When you have no logical answer, just attack the person! Alinsky’s Rule #5, right? (Although, the 3rd rule could apply, couldn’t it?)

    You’re so predictable…..

  46. Athos says:

    Tom, who would have ever thought 10 years ago that the greatest peril to our nation, according to the Democrat party, is if we don’t castrate our children! And Joe Biden and the levers of power in DC proclaimed this DAYS after a confused, mentally ill woman who thought she could be a man, shot and killed 6 people…3 of them small children.

    Of COURSE, men should not compete in women’s sports. What sort of society must we have that would give a nanosecond thought about it??

    I’m really hoping that Manifesto comes out from that poor, sick, embodiment of evil shooter in Nashville. Our country has the right to know what it is, don’t you think?

  47. Anonymous says:

    So much happening in the world today and the right wing wants to talk about men playing women’s sports.

    Not insurrections, not racism, not war, not even the economy; men playing women’s sports….


  48. It would be good to know what her mindset was when she shot up that school, especially if it could help someone spot a similar mindset and prevent a shooting.

  49. Yes, insurrections. Yes, riots. Yes, racism. Yes, mental illness. Yes, war. Yes, the economy. Yes, men playing women’s sports. Geez.

  50. Anonymous says:

    Thomas care to offer any opinions about the Texas city that wanted to take some books out of the local library then when they lost in court they acted to defund public libraries there?

    Or whether the Texas judge that sentenced the black guy to 70 years in jail for spitting on a police officer was more wrong than indicting Trump because of the number of white guys that spit on police officers and take a beating but no jail time?

    Or whether Marjorie Taylor Green was right about defending the guy who is accused of espionage because Biden hates whites?

  51. The world is full of stupid deeds.

  52. Anonymous says:

    I prefer to read the bills people talk about rather than rely on them to tell me what’s in the bill.

    I read it, I see absolutely nothing wrong with it. Maybe you could point out something bad here but I sure can’t.

    Click to access 5599-S.E%20AMH%20ENGR%20H1742.E.pdf

  53. Anonymous says:

    Totally off whatever topic we are on, I’m a subscriber to the NYT and each week they publish a quiz asking about the news of the week to see how on top of it the viewer is.

    Usually 10 questions and even as much news as I consume, and its a lot, I’ve never gotten all 10 right. The quiz is nice because they give you the answers but also the number of people who get the question correct. In the near 2 years of taking the quiz I’ve never seen a single question that EVERYONE got right. Until today.

    Of the 300,426 participants 100% got the answer correct.

    The question was

    “A federal appeals court ruled that which drug could temporarily remain available to the public with some restrictions?”

    The answer as you probably all guessed was the anti-abortion pill Mifepristone.

    My takeaway is that woe be to any candidate taking an anti-abortion stand because the people are paying attention.

  54. NYPete says:

    This week’s Second Amendment Moment: 4 dead, 15 teenagers wounded in mass shooting in Alabama.
    But, Freedom!

  55. Athos says:

    I stand with Elon Musk’s statement: ‘Any parent or doctor who sterilizes a child before they are a consenting adult should go to prison for life.’

    The Washington bill is monstrous. Once again, it all points to the false philosophy that there is no God. It started (in the West) in Europe in the mid 1800s with Marx, Nietzsche, continuing with Kant, Foucault, Hawkins and so on and so on and so on.

    The very fact that the leftist lunatics are now openly promoting this vile way of life is telling, isn’t it? It’s somewhat reminiscent to Barry Zero’s 2nd term…when the Dems thought they would never lose another election…and all us little people (the great unwashed) would just shut up and obey AND be grateful for being led by such superior people!

    How’d that work out again, eh?

    And the NY Times has ceased being a Newspaper and is now just a mouthpiece for this new Godless, Leftist cover-up power trip.

    Sad, but true.The Old Grey Lady is nothing but a seedy whore, now.

    petey, you’re shooting story happens every week in Chicago. You care at all about those people that are killed? What are you, a racist?

  56. NYPete says:

    Yeah, you are right — lots of guns in Chicago too.

  57. NYPete says:

    And two Second Amendment moments today;
    “A man in upstate New York was charged with murder on Monday in the killing of a woman who was in a car that mistakenly drove into his driveway, officials said.”

    “84-Year-Old Is Charged in Shooting of Black Teenager Who Went to Wrong House”

    True, not mass shootings, but I think they certainly count as the consequences of letting Freedom not only ring, but ricochet.

  58. Athos says:

    petey says, “Yeah, you are right — lots of guns in Chicago too…” Excuse me, sir..I thought guns considered to be “assault weapons,” such as certain semi-automatic rifles, and “ghost” guns, which are privately-made firearms without serial numbers, were banned in the city of Chicago….And aren’t Chicago’s gun laws among the most restrictive in the United States?

    Or am I mistaken?

  59. NYPete says:

    Chicago has this thing called roads. Roads cross state lines. Cars drive on roads. Cars bring guns from nearby states — mostly red. Indiana. Missouri, Kentucky. Big red Indiana is next to Chicago, so it contributes the most guns. In fact, less than half the guns used in crimes in crimes in Chicago come from Illinois. And lots and lots of the Illinois guns come from gun shops outside the Chicago city lines.

  60. Rincon says:

    Just in case you don’t trust NYPete, the headline for this story is, “Less than half the guns used in Illinois crime come from Illinois, data analysis shows”

    Aiding and abetting anyone?

    BTW, It looks like Fox settled with Dominion for $787 Million. I guess it’s hard to stick to your guns if you’re in the wrong.

  61. Athos says:

    rin, the smug liberal “gotcha” look is so last century. It’s a bad look, pal. Besides, now Murdoch doesn’t have to testify under oath. Slightly more than pocket change but not as bad as CNN hemorrhaging viewers (maybe they WANT Orange man BACK, eh?)

    petey, you’re logic is flawed. Why isn’t the areas surrounding Chicago filled with the same shooting crime? And although it has escalated exponentially over the last 2+ years (Kim Fox elected??), Chicago has consistently led the crime parade for that entire area. Maybe if the Foxy and the new “kids just need to eat” mayor wouldn’t release these felons (and choose not to prosecute that mob violence, like over last weekend) people would stop committing wanton acts of violence?

    That appears to me to be more along the lines of “Aiding and abetting anyone?” than some gun shops in Gary, Indiana. But the good people of Chicago are getting exactly what they voted for…aren’t they? (Kind of like the US and Joe Brandon)

  62. Rincon says:

    You just put your finger on the pertinent question: Why do Americans kill each other so much more often than citizens of other countries? While liberals seem to think it’s all about the easy availability of guns, conservatives think it’s all about liberal policies because they equate crime with big cities, and most big cities have more liberal governments. If backing up an assertion with facts is a “gotcha”, then here’s another one: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territories_by_intentional_homicide_rate
    Check out the second map from the top. The highest murder rates are in some cities, but are also seen in rural counties far more in the politically conservative southeast and southwest than in the more liberal northern half of the country. This suggests a different correlation than the very weak one of political leaning: Poverty. This is not to say that giving poor people money would make murder dry up. The issue is far more complicated than that. The possibility is also strong that poverty is not the cause, but rather, a marker of crime propensity. People with poor social and technical skills tend to be poor financially. They are also the ones most likely to kill someone. Strictly a correlation, not necessarily a causation.

    My contention is that if we actually want to solve the problem, we should examine the numerous countries that have dealt with it far more successfully than we have. After all, what they are doing seems to work.

  63. Athos says:

    O-Kay, Rinny. What immediately jumped out at me with the 2nd map was the Custer Battlefield National Park in Montana was pinkish (25 murders per 100,000) and a great big swath of Alaska was also reddish (between 25 -50 murders per 100K) which definitely doesn’t scream “Murder Capitol”, does it? The chart listed DC as the top “intentional murder” sites in the US (Puerto Rico was second, followed by several southern states – Missouri was no surprise “hands up don’t shoot ” Ferguson fame). And, of course, I was happy to see my very own Clark County, Nevada in the “not green, but not red” labeling.

    Here is the problem we have with trying to discus crime and murder in today’s world. When we point out the obvious, acknowledge the elephant in the room, we get shouted down as RACIST!, don’t we? And the policies that have been implemented, and SUSTAINED by the Democrat leadership run contrary to a meaningful, successful life.
    Every study I’ve seen over the last 40 years lists the same basic traits to escape poverty, crime and early death and/or imprisonment. And I’ll be you’ve seen these same lists. Don’t have children out of wedlock, raise children in a 2 parent home, develop a work ethic, don’t spend more than you make, study hard at school, etc etc.

    Youths that run with street gangs to get the validation and mentoring that is a father’s job will turn to crime. Societies that excuse behavior because of skin color or mental deficiencies that were unknown 60 years ago, and not hold people accountable for aberrant behavior, will produce more violence and rage. And what’s with “defund the Police” and the Soros DAs letting violent criminals out of jail?

    It’s too late for me to write anymore, I can revisit this later, but I’ll leave you with this…We have LOST the War on Poverty, completely destroyed the black family and made areas in our beautiful cities, war zones, and not safe for ANYONE to venture.

    And it’s all been since LBJ’s War on Poverty eliminated Fatherhood for dependency the State.

    Of course, that’s how I see it. What say you?

  64. Athos says:

    Thomas, how low has the RJ sunk? If ever there was verifiable proof of “Fake News”, it was plain for all to see on the below the fold story of Tucker Carlson’s separation from FOX news. In the 2nd paragraph of the S. Battaglio story (LA Times) it contradicts the headline of “Carlson fired over discrimination lawsuit” by saying “Fox News announced the stunning departure of its top-rated host Monday WITH NO EXPLANATION…”(caps are mine). Then proceeds to state “people familiar with situation” fairy tales.

    Wouldn’t you have stopped that type of blatantly bias reporting?

    On a sad note, poor Don Lemon. He gets relegated to page 11A, and the his picture isn’t near as nice (or as big) at Tucker’s. Talk about twisting the knife!

    I’ve been a loyal subscriber for over 30 years, but this one just might take the cake. And to think, as a kid, we used to laugh at Pravda, but not at the soul crushing resignation of being forced to acknowledge lies as truth. Karma is a b……..

  65. Anonymous says:

    “I hate him passionately”
    -America and Tucker Carlson about Donald Trump

  66. I don’t know, Athos. It seems almost every story has a different reason for Carlson being canned.

  67. Athos says:

    “It seems almost every story has a different reason for Carlson being canned.” Exactly. So why give a reason that hasn’t been verified (and could possibly be fake) in your headline?

    Answer: RJ, welcome to Fake News and the distrust of free thinking people.

  68. NYPete says:

    This week’s Second Amendment moment: five people shot dead — including an 8-year-old, in Texas. AR-15 style weapon, natch.

  69. Anonymous says:

    Mebbe you’d be happier if he went next door, quietly screwed all the possible exits shut and set the place on fire. Burning them all alive.
    Or, how about pressure cooker bombs…
    Or fertilizer bombs…
    Pretty sure I missed a whole slew of other ways for crazy killers to crazy kill.

    Message being, crazy killers will find a way to crazy kill. No matter how hard you restrict legal ownership.
    But legal owners at least have a chance of stopping a crazy killer.

    Don’t expect any further interaction.

  70. NYPete says:

    Boy, you are whack.

  71. Athos says:

    Nice comeback, petey! Put a lot of hard thought into that one, eh?

    Anthony Watts: “When You Resort To Name Calling, You’ve Lost The Argument”

    Although, speaking from experience, sometimes name calling is lethargic, isn’t it?

  72. Bill says:

    I enjoyed reading the discussion between Athos and Rincon. As to the last ssue, that of Tucker Carlson, to add a bit of levity, perhaps they let him go because he had a cackle equal to or greater than Kamala Harris’s? At this point no one but Fox and Carlson know but I would suspect that the Dominion verdict had something to do with it.

  73. Bill says:

    In addition to the Carlson matter, there are currently more lawsuits going on such as the Smartmatic suit for more money than Dominion asked for and also some hostile work environment cases.
    We can speculate about the reasons for the termination but the more interesting question is that of the media being sued successfully. (At least to date). Think back to the the yellow press and William Randolph Hearst to our most recent standard enunciated by the Supreme Court, “actual malice”.
    The media has always been biased and always will be so. Methinks both sides have gone to far. I have no particular reason to love the media except there are those who have a sense of honor and those who truly believe, as I do, that a free and honest press is a necessary element to any s type of government except totalitarian dictatorships. Sunlight cures a lot of ills.

  74. Anonymous says:

    Speaking from experience, most times Atholes is retarded.


    fucking moron

  75. Anonymous says:

    Are you proud of yourself Anonymous? What a mean little world you must live in.

  76. Anonymous says:

    See heres’ the thing

    the retard calling himself Athos just mocked someone above but that apparently was fine with you.

    Whoever you are.

    Think about that

  77. Bill says:

    My eyesight makes it difficult to read but I went back and looked to see who it was that Athos mocked and possibly missed what statement and who you were referring too that Athos (who you call “retard”supposedly “mocked”. Over the course of reading I found several instances but not one recently of being mean. So please refresh me and if I agree, I will agree that it was wrong of me not to condemn him. So, give me something so that I can think about it. Thank you in advance for taking the time to respond.

  78. Athos says:

    “Hate is the Devil’s cocaine”, anny!
    Cathartic, lethargic, therapeutic, low born…..according to Mr Anthony Watts, you’re on the losing side…..

    And I’m sure that doesn’t make you feel too good, now, does it?

  79. Bill says:

    Your last post went over my head, Athos. Which Anthony Wats are you alking about?
    I’m going to bed and hope to see a response from you tomorrow as well as the question(s) I posed to Anonymous. Maybe you can tell me what it is that you said that I should be offended by what you said. Was it you who first used the appellation “retarded”. Whoever called the other that term is wrong and I find it most offensive. I have a friend who was considered by his teachers and family as being “retarded”. He was not and in fact is an electronic genius. My own brother had cerebral palsy and for most of his life was considered as mentally challenged by ignorant people. He had a pretty highis IQ which helped himthe many challenges imposed upon him my his motor dysfunction.
    As Forest Gump said, “you can’t help being stupid”. You can’t help having limited limited mental capacity. To tag someone with that label is mean. Stupid is a static condition. Ignorance is not. You can do something about ignorance .
    I enthusiastically join all who condemn willful ignorance.

  80. Anonymous says:

    True or false:

    Athos was mocking “petey” and his failure to put much thought into his response?

    “Athos says:
    April 30, 2023 at 12:29 pm
    Nice comeback, petey! Put a lot of hard thought into that one, eh?”

    I’ll leave it to you Bill to decide, or should I say rationalize it for us.

  81. Athos says:

    All right, Bill! My comment about Anthony Watts quote, “When you resort to name calling, you’ve lost the argument” reinforces my belief that this new brand of leftism (as was timely exhibited by anny’s name calling) is all the left can do in the sphere of public discourse.
    Joe “Let’s go Brandon” Biden promotes himself as some sort of great unifier, when his rhetoric is filled with hatred toward MAGA republicans. When the only way you can win an argument is by silencing your opposition, you have a dictatorship. And how can the left win any arguments when they….
    1) choose to ignore 5000 years of western cultural development (cause it’s RACIST don’t ya know!)
    2) re-invent a new religion of anti human, Gaia worshipping suicidal con artists
    3) foment racial divide and
    4)try to eliminate the human female (and destroy the family, civilization’s basic building block)

    Are we a nation of cowards? Is it true that in our overwhelming desire to “live and let live” we shy away from grooming, and mutilating our children? And where will the next generation come from if 25% of our society is childless?

    May God give us the courage to fight for our principles. I do believe that our country is being ripped asunder by a very vocal vindictive minority. And self destructive lifestyles are being held up as desirable (when they give only hopelessness and despair).

    And anny, FYI, petey’s comment about “you are whack.” makes very little sense to me, as a rebuttal to Anonymous’s accurate statement of “But legal owners at least have a chance of stopping a crazy killer.” hence my sarcastic come back of “…Put a lot of hard thought into that one, eh?”

    I personally found that a very funny line! (Rodney Dangerfield was a favorite of mine!)

  82. Bill says:

    Thanks Athos. I find little to disagree with you on in your last post.

    I didn’t know who Anthony Watts was that you were quoting. Good quote. I should pay more attention to contemporary culture. I like you analysis ad would dare t o join yo by observing that the only culture that it is allowable, by the eft the Media and Academia i s our own Judeo/Christian Culture and
    It is that culture that gave the world a new form of government embodied in our Declaration of Independence and our Constitution hat has permitted us to evolve as a society that has brought us far from our original status.
    And II is the rights given by those documents that are being used to destroy them.
    I’m still hot sure why I am supposed to apologize but perhaps I will learn. In the interim, I am reminded of one of my favoites from Macbeth. Sound and Fury signifying nothing.

  83. Bill says:

    And, by he way Athos, Dangerfield was one of my favotites as was George Carlin.

  84. Steve says:

    NYPete says:
    April 29, 2023 at 10:30 am
    This week’s Second Amendment moment: five people shot dead — including an 8-year-old, in Texas. AR-15 style weapon, natch.

    I bet they all are just good people looking for better lives in the US, even the one deported 4 times! And they don’t know where he got that weapon either.

    Good one NYPete. You funny jumping to the Island of Conclusions.
    It’s fast jump but a long swim back!
    (HT Norman Juster. RIP)


  85. NYPete says:

    Guess you don’t care about an 8 year-old being shot in the head if the family wasn’t here legally. That is what you think this story is all about, right? Not an entire family massacred with an assault-style weapon, but whether they were here legally.

  86. For the record: at least one of the victims may have been in the U.S. legally.

  87. Steve says:

    I guess you like putting words in other people’s mouths, so tit fer tat NYPete.

    You appear to want more illegal immigrants to have illegally obtained guns and other weapons while you also appear to want legal ownership outlawed so actual citizens have little or no chance of protecting themselves from the illega…er (yer beloved) undocumented criminals who do the child killing you seem to think I want to encourage.

  88. Steve says:

    I guess you like putting words in other people’s mouths, so tit fer tat NYPete.
    You appear to want more illegal immigrants to have illegally obtained guns and other weapons while you also appear to want legal ownership outlawed so actual citizens have little or no chance of protecting themselves from the illega…er (yer beloved) undocumented criminals who do the child killing you seem to think I want to encourage.

  89. Steve says:

    Well, wordpress seems to be acting up a bit. Sorry for the double post. And it appears NYPete didn’t read the details.

  90. Bill says:

    In reading the dialogue on guns and the recent tragic massacre of a next door family by a repeatedly deported criminal illegal alien, why the focus on the gun style and not the fact that but for the failure of the Biden no border policy that this tragedy might not have happened. And I note the back and forth about the amount of guns and where they came from rather than the underlying reasons for such actions in the first place. We do not have too many guns only too many people to use them on other people. But every time I think that disarmament of the populace might be the answer,I think about where the people are not allowed to have guns. Nazi Germany, North Koea, Russia and China come to mind. Count on the police? I wish we could but in many cities, you cannot get the police to respond to crime and even if they make an arrest the criminal may be not prosecuted and released on no bail. I remember some time ago Rinny that we had a discussion about my once beloved City of San Francisco which was becoming a human sewer and which you denied. Are you convinced yet?

  91. NYPete says:

    1. ” I think about where the people are not allowed to have guns. Nazi Germany, North Koea, Russia and China come to mind.”
    Those countries come to your mind, but the ones that come to my mind are Australia, Canada, UK, Ireland, France, Japan, Germany, Spain, New Zealand, and just about every other liberal democracy — except our.
    But they don’t come to your mind.
    2. “We do not have too many guns only too many people to use them on other people.” That one is a wingnut classic!

  92. NYPete says:

    This week’s Second Amendment Moment: Five people shot in Atlanta.

    But, Freedom!

  93. Athos says:

    Bill, I don’t know if he would have survived today’s “woke” world but when he first came out in the 80’s, but Sam Kinison had me laughing till tears came out. Late at night, when no one is awake (that can see me) I’ll watch some of his stand up and shake my head at how young and stupid and care free I was back then.

    And that was when Liberals were the fun people to be with (and conservatives were the scolds!!)

    Although, come to think about it, Ronny Raygun was pretty funny (and dead on the money!), wasn’t he?

  94. Rincon says:

    I hope I’m not beating as dead horse, but I’ve missed a lot here lately and read rather quickly. Going back to the “release” of Tucker Carlson from Fox News, some here seem to be mystified as to why it occurred. I think it’s pretty straightforward, unless I’m missing something. Although the entirety of Fox News was found guilty of maligning Dominion’s products with no significant basis in fact, it looks much better to their viewers if they can find a scapegoat to blame it on and then “do the right thing” by dismissing him, even though many of the big names knew they were broadcasting lies. Once the “bad actor” is removed, then Fox can act as if the whole episode was caused by a rogue.

  95. Why is no one suing all the media that reported the Hunter Biden laptop was a Russian disinformation plant? They were just reporting what people were claiming, just like Fox.

  96. Anonymous says:

    To sustain a claim of defamation or libel, the First Amendment requires that the plaintiff show that the defendant knew that a statement was false or was reckless in deciding to publish the information without investigating whether it was accurate.


  97. Anonymous says:

    Rincon whatever Fox is, it knew that it was publishing lies as evidenced by the private statements of the people who make up Fox. This is why they paid.

    And the standard enunciated in the Sullivan v NYT case which I posted above is why what they did was a violation of Dominions rights.

    Interestingly, some folks on the right (namely Uncle Clarence Thomas and the orange stain we know as Donald Trump) want to do away with the Sullivan standard and make it even easier to prove defamation; I wonder how much the guy(s) who bought off Uncle Clarence paid for that?

  98. Rincon says:

    In answer to your question, Thomas, the plaintiff in a defamation suit must show that they suffered significant damage. The Fox News stories likely caused Dominion to lose great amount of sales. Not sure who was damaged by the Biden stories to which you refer. Additionally, stories about Biden being subjected to a Russian disinformation campaign may indeed be false, but the defendant must be shown to have known the information was false. That applied to the Fox News case in spades.

    The Fox News approach to the “stolen election” issue was far more than bad or inaccurate reporting. It meets the definition of a propaganda campaign. Other media also publish propaganda, mostly by a biased selection of stories. The unusual thing about the Fox case is that they used fabricated information extensively. Perhaps you can remember historical examples of such an egregious violation of the rules of journalism. Care to name a few?

  99. Athos says:

    Going back to petey and his totalitarian desire to ban guns.. Have you ever pondered why the Founding Fathers gave us the 2nd amendment and what do you think that amendment means? I’d be truly interested….

    Rin and Anny, in today’s world, shopping for a judge sympathetic to your righteous cause is done quite often, wouldn’t you agree? As to the question of Hunter’s laptop being “Russian disinformation” the facts are glaring and overlooked by our alphabet news teams, aren’t they? The FBI had that laptop since 2019, and still the “51 knowledgable spooks” all claimed Russian disinformation AND that’s what all of them reported (actually, dutifully parroted the regime’s propoganda) BECAUSE the unwashed masses were too stupid to have the truth and might have voted for that “orange stain we know as Donald Trump”, yes?
    And who had that story on Fox? Tucker Carlson did the bulk of the reporting (after the NY Post got banned from all social media) so OF COURSE the Evil Empire (our corrupt deep state) had to get rid of Tucker.

    As to a similar case that comes to mind (for you, Rinny) The NFL was investigating Robert Kraft (0wner of the Patriots) and searching thru HIS emails when they found a few bad statements accredited to the Raider’s head coach John Gruden, and Gruden got the boot from coaching. Now who’s to say there weren’t other coaches, owners, whoever that had equally bad emails in the Kraft investigation, but those didn’t come to light?
    It would appear (to me) that the Deep State (FBI, CIA, Pentagon and the DNP) all have a direct connection to the alphabet news agencies, because said agencies all parrot the same news story. Proving this in a court of law hasn’t been done….yet…but obviously the Deep State is worried because you folks continually try to silence any dissent (rather than discus).

  100. Athos says:

    Going back to the Dominion case and why no law suits about the laptop media reporting…..The lawyers for Fox got a settlement that neither confirms nor denies Fox’s damage to Dominion, correct? “Fox News’ $787.5 million settlement with Dominion Voting Systems is the largest publicly known defamation settlement in US history involving a media company.” The public is the loser here, because we could have been shown what’s “behind the curtain”, yes?

    And now that Tucker’s gone, maybe the Murdocks will be invited to the swanky NY parties from which they’ve been barred!

    My main point is “A reputable lawyer will advise you to keep out of the law, make the best of a foolish bargain, and not get caught again.” Mark Twain

  101. Rincon says:

    The Fox News lawsuit was to be a jury trial, so no judge would have had a final decision. https://www.cnn.com/2023/04/13/media/fox-news-dominion-trial-jury/index.html A sympathetic judge can alter a case, yes, but your kind of reasoning allows anyone anywhere to claim that any court finding is bogus – no evidence necessary. The same kind of pig latin logic applies to our electoral system. Conservatives blithely state that the election was rigged and Trump made the same claim about the 2016 and 2018 elections, all without significant evidence. This means that in your world view, a trial of Hunter Biden would be irrelevant anyway, since people with your mindset (except on the liberal side) would simply dismiss it, saying that the judge was against him. I note that Gwyneth Paltrow stuck to her guns and even won a countersuit against her accuser. Sad when a Hollywood actress has bigger cajones than a multibillion dollar company. Of course, she may have been innocent with the facts on her side.

    The evidence is overwhelming, unless of course, one doesn’t pay attention to selected bits. For example, do you know anything about Fox’s reporting on Dominion and the Venezuela election? Just wondering.

    Also sad that you are willing to accept that somehow, a judge can snap his fingers and totally change the outcome of a trial that would be under a metaphorical microscope, but never the possibility that a computer drive can be altered by a foreign government and then be handed over to a legally blind computer technician (my, what a coincidence!) by someone claiming to be Hunter Biden. Another huge difference between Hunter Biden and Fox: A criminal trial requires enough evidence to establish guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. If that standard is not met, then a prosecutor should not take it to court. A civil trial has no such gatekeeper and can be brought on by anyone.

    As for your contention that, “The lawyers for Fox got a settlement that neither confirms nor denies Fox’s damage to Dominion, correct?” Not very convincing since there was no possible way Fox could be found guilty if they simply paid the money, which they did. Consider looking up Michael Madigan or Michael Swango – or even Al Capone. All three also went unconvicted for many, many crimes, and they didn’t even have Fox’s convenient escape route.

  102. NYPete says:

    This weekend’s latest Second Amendment Moment: nine people shot dead in Texas.
    Good thing we make it so easy for citizens to protect themselves from governmental tyranny by shooting childrens’ faces off.
    Otherwise we would have one of those tyrannical, gun restrictive tyrannical states Athos is so concerned about, like Australia, France, Ireland, the UK and Spain.

  103. NYPete says:

    Oh, assault-style weapon, of course. Just what the writers of the Second Amendment were intending in the 18th Century.

  104. Anonymous says:

    NYPete jumping to the island of Conclusions is FUN!

  105. Steve says:

    Suicide by cop is sad, no matter how it’s accomplished.
    There is nothing to celebrate in this.
    Nothing at all.
    Even once we know some of the details, there will be nothing worth celebrating, gun use is secondary to the cause.

  106. NYPete says:

    “Gun use is secondary to the cause.” Yeah, whatever that means.

  107. Athos says:

    Once again, is there any way at all for us to agree that there is no justifiable reason to randomly kill children and the person doing this is not in their right mind? it is not rational to want to wantonly kill people. Full stop. The means are secondary and I notice petey is unable (or unwilling) to answer my question….mainly, why did our Founding Fathers deem it necessary to give us the 2nd amendment?

    I’ll just wait for your answer, petey.

    Rinny, are you a lawyer? “The evidence is overwhelming, unless of course, one doesn’t pay attention to selected bits.” and just exactly was that evidence? And Tucker was one of the few that pushed back on Sidney Powell’s assertion that the Dominion machines stole 9 million votes, so we’ll never really know what was said and how bad was this case BECAUSE the Murdocks settled. And as to the Hunter Biden laptop, you’re way behind in what’s going on, Rin. Hunter (thru his attorneys) has already claimed the laptop as his. (Or did you forget that little piece of information?)

    Yes, in a civil trial you only need a majority (not like a criminal trial at all) and another reason to settle. And you’re naiveté about impartial judges not controlling or steering the outcomes of trials is refreshing. (but somewhat suspicious given that you are from Chicago!) And speaking of the great state of Illinois, what’s with the homework assignment you gave me about Madigan, Swango and Capone?

    A crooked Illinois politician is as natural as the sun coming up in the East! Swango sounds like a total psychopath (sounds demonic to me) and Al Capone is Al Capone!
    Fox wasn’t found guilty (except in the court of public opinion) but of course you’d compare Fox to your merry band of Illinois pariah!

    Oh, and for the record I believe it was Hillery (and her MSM cronies) that claimed the 2016 election was stolen, delegitimate, and Russian hackery. You remember that, don’t you??

    And I might add that it is refreshing to actually have a real discussion about these pressing issues, instead of the usual “shut up murdering racist” argument some members exhibit on this blog……

  108. NYPete says:

    It is really secondary to the fact that children just had their faces shot off because Athos believes James Madison was cool with that, but, in fact, Hillary Clinton never claimed that the 2016 election was “stolen” or “delegitimate,” and she conceded the election hours after the last vote was cast.

  109. Anonymous says:

    Trump’s claims about stolen/fake elections go back to President Obama’s first win when he claimed that the country needed to storm the Capitol and overturn the election of the country’s first black president.

  110. NYPete says:

    I do not believe Trump ever said that in 2008.

  111. Anonymous says:

    While I do not doubt he said it then, it is true that it was only in 2012 that his comments gained notoriety because he tweeted them to the nation. The point of course is that he started this nonsense long before 2016.

  112. NYPete says:

    Now it was confirmed it was an AR-15 style weapon used to slaughter those shopper at the outlet mall.

    Weapon of choice for freedom-loving patriots hoping to carry out James Madison’s vision.

  113. Anonymous says:

  114. Steve says:

    When people insist on ignoring causes while focusing on symptoms, the disease continues unabated.
    NYPete insists on focusing only on the gun (going so far as to fucus on the specific type) while ignoring the finger that pulls the trigger.
    What caused the person to take such action? We can never know because people like NYPete have ensured our government cannot even study the issue.

  115. Steve says:

    That may have been a Freudian misspelling slip.

    should be “focus”.

  116. Steve says:

    Mass murderers will always find a way. But NYPete will always call for gun control.


  117. Anonymous says:

    Strange how after only 20 muslims hijacked planes that republicans called for muslim control but after hundreds of mass shootings all they got is “thoughts and prayers”; I wonder how much better the world would have been if after 911 that had been their response rather than their wars against reason and unconstitutional law enactments like The Patriot Act?

  118. NYPete says:

    “‘No Way to Prevent This,’ Says Only Nation Where This Regularly Happens”

    [Headline that The Onion publishes after each and every mass shooting]

  119. Steve says:

    Quoting a satire outlet…..

    NYPete, you funny.

    Now go call for absolute SUV bans.

    It’s in yer DNA.

  120. Rincon says:

    Thank you Athos for reminding me about Hillary’s comments that the 2016 election was influenced by Russian meddling. Those comments were divisive and there was insufficient evidence to conclude that Russia’s actions were sufficient to throw the election, so they should have been phrased differently. She overstated her case, but did not go to the ridiculous extremes that Trump did. According to Time Magazine: “Over the course of the election, a wide-ranging group of Russians probed state voter databases for insecurities; hacked the Hillary Clinton campaign, the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee and the Democratic National Committee; tried to hack the campaign of Sen. Marco Rubio and the Republican National Committee; released politically damaging information on the internet; spread propaganda on Twitter, Facebook, YouTube and Instagram; staged rallies in Florida and Pennsylvania; set up meetings with members of the Trump campaign and its associates; and floated a business proposition for a skyscraper in Moscow to the Trump Organization.”

    Seems to me that Hillary did indeed have a reason to complain and a right to speculate that the election might have turned out differently if not for Russia’s actions, but she should have labeled her thoughts as speculation. Nevertheless, comparing Hillary’s words with Trump’s actions is like comparing a jaywalker to an armed robber.
    Hillary complained. Trump did the same, but could not let go, bringing over 50 unsuccessful lawsuits, calling the Georgia governor asking him to find 11,000 nonexistent votes, tried to coerce the Michigan legislature to annul the election, severely criticized Pence for not illegally blocking the election confirmation, and of course, sat on his hands for two hours while his minions injured more than 150 Capitol police officers, 17 who were still unable to work after 5 months. Many other injuries “including scratches, bruises and eyes burned from chemical spray” were never officially reported. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/capitol-police-injuries-riot/
    As we found out in the Dominion lawsuit, Fox News fabricated stories in order to keep Trump’s false allegations alive. Other conservative did similar reporting for months. All of this was an attempt to shatter voters’ faith in one of our most important institutions, and it was all ginned up with little to no significant evidence.
    Additionally, “Trump, speaking to Jon Karl of ABC News, refused to condemn the rioters who chanted for Pence to be hanged. “Because it’s common sense,” Trump said. “It’s common sense that you’re supposed to protect … if you know a vote is fraudulent, how can you pass on a fraudulent vote to Congress?” All of these actions were based on very little or no substantive evidence.

  121. Rincon says:

    Sorry. My reference for the first paragraph of my post immediately above. https://time.com/5565991/russia-influence-2016-election/

    And for the last paragraph: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/jun/28/trump-pence-deserved-it-hanged-capitol-attack

    Now, about gun control. Does anyone here believe that the government should confiscate all guns and/or ban the sale of all firearms?

    Does anyone here believe that convicted felons and crazy people should be able to purchase firearms quickly and easily without restriction?

    I’m just wondering how far we really are from the middle ground.

  122. Bill says:

    Every one wants a solution to this insanity of persons killing other people for no apparent reasons. When the instrument used to kill varies, firearms seem to be a favorite method and when the weapon is semi automatic a lot of firepower can be generated by one person in a short period of time.
    Automobiles are another favorite with numerous incidents of people driving their vehicles into crowds. One of the first instances was on Thanksgiving Day 1980 when Priscilla Ford drove her Lincoln down the sidewalk in Reno, Nevada, killing six (6) unsuspecting persons.
    A friend of mine who lives in Davis California recently told me of the panic in that peaceful college town when there were a spate of random fatal stabbings.
    The point being is that guns, cars or knives are not the problem. The problem is the senseless killing of men, women and children who are peaceably going about their lives by deranged and evil people.
    Members of a society should have the right to be protected and a right to protect themselves. Without the Second Amendment law abiding citizens are disarmed. So many of the gun deaths are in jurisdictions where private carry is not allowed and the gun laws are mot stringent about possession. Laws limiting the type of weapon only affects the scope of the tragedy within a time period. It does nothing to eliminate the tragedy. How many more people need to be killed before we realize that there is deep menace in how alienated we have become as a society to permit the casual butchery being perpetrated by some anti social cold blooded individuals. I never read that any of these people who commit these killings are members of the NRA.
    I wish there was an easy answer. Might I suggest that more laws are not an answer but merely kicking the can down the road.

  123. Anonymous says:

    “There is no solution
    Do nothing”

    or alternatively

    “We’ve tried nothing and we’re all out of ideas.”

    but at the end of the day

    Pray Harder
    -republicans discussing mass killings with guns

    Bad books with words?

    All these have solutions which are “simple” apparently because the republican solution is to enact more laws. Strange how they are.

  124. Rincon says:

    “The point being is that guns, cars or knives are not the problem. The problem is the senseless killing of men, women and children who are peaceably going about their lives by deranged and evil people.”
    Nice analysis, but it comes up short in my book. Virtually all liberals say guns are the problem and virtually all conservatives say they’re not, but the conservatives have a huge flaw in their position. They don’t offer any solutions. Their message is entirely negative. Whether guns are the problem or not, there are dozens of countries that manage to have a far lower homicide rate than we do. They have already found the answer while we thrash around trying to reinvent the wheel. Are we too proud to emulate them?

  125. Bill says:

    Rin, I guess if the government were to confiscate the some 468 million guns in the US, that might be a solution but it is doubtful that people might resist. Confiscate them all and killings will continue although suicide by guns will be greatly diminished. Guns will not be eliminated and the bad guys will continue to have them. They will either steal them or make them. If you want to learn how to make a gun go on the internet and you can learn how. Shades of “West Side Story”, have you never heard of Zip Guns?
    IMO. until we look at at and make efforts to ascertain he causes mass killings will continue.
    Why do we havbe mass killings? I don’t know. I suspect that it might have to do with the destruction of the family as a unit and the war being waged against faith and even our own history. There are undoubtedly diverse causes, the internet and the media being but two.
    Something has happened to our society. May be rapid diversity without integration is a problem. Then again it might not. It didn’t work too well for he Roman Empire but who knows?
    As far as guns are concerned, I do know that a few years ago in the community where I lived, there was not a pickup truck in the school yard that didn’t have a rifle or shotgun prominently displayed on a rack. Nobody shot or threatened any one with a gun and if they had justice would have been swift.
    I understand our desire for a quick solution. We are an impatient people who cannot stand to wait in an In and Out Burger line.
    It is both tempting and easy to “solve” a problem by passing another law or restriction of rights. The result is usually to deprive law abiding citizens of their rights while the those who are the target of such laws go merrily on their way.
    Case in point. Chicago has strict gun laws. It doesn’t seem to solve the slaughter by guns and no one seems to care about the slaughter.
    If I lived in Chicago, I would damn well arm myself.

  126. Bill says:

    Rin What is your solution? Don’t sell certain types or outlaw them? Or do you favor complete confiscation of all guns or strict licensing procedures?

  127. Athos says:

    petey has taken a hard pass, rin, maybe you’d like to try…..” Have you ever pondered why the Founding Fathers gave us the 2nd amendment and what do you think that amendment means? I’d be truly interested….”

    To me, the negative solution is to give the central government more control over the people by doing what was so effectively done in Germany after the rise of Hitler. (there are many more examples of disarming the populace to establish totalitarian rule, but others have already stated them (Bill, maybe) and have been ignored by the gun grabbers). So, how about I throw out a few suggestions….

    End aid to dependent children programs and force fathers to man up and be responsible for their progeny. It wouldn’t hurt to have social media influencers, sports heroes and motion picture stars to back this play. This should severely limit the number of youths that turn to gangs for their father figure.

    Build the wall and place a moratorium on immigration. No more refugees. The system is overwhelmed, broken and hurts our most vulnerable and poorest citizens.

    Enforce the law. Rudy Giuliani changed NYC in the 90s by NOT apologizing for western bourgeois values and cracked down on all crime. For that matter, we need to stop apologizing for our Western Culture (because there IS no better culture TO DATE, is there?)

    Acknowledge the history of Atheism (started in the 1500s) and the folly of those atheist quacks like Nietzsche, Freud, Marx and Engel, Darwin, and up to Foucault, and Hawkins….return to a belief in a Higher Power (and no, not Gaia) that gives people hope and a much better way to deal with one another.

    And lastly, return to sanity and Truth. Victor Davis Hanson wrote an amazing opinion column in Sunday’s RJ entitled “The new ugly Americans”. Absolutely a must read for all that wish to discus the direction this country is being propelled by the new woke left.

    There is no Truth without God. It really is an either/or statement. And in my mind, history provides more than enough evidence to tip the scales God’s way.

    Oh, and rin….I wasn’t too impressed with Australia and Canada’s crackdown on their respective citizens over the covid vaccine “discussion”. Of course, I wasn’t too pleased about our very own capitulation to gov coercion for vaccines in our country. But the best of my knowledge, no one was arrested for going outside while not vaxxed in the USA.

    Australia? New Zealand? not so much….

  128. Rincon says:

    Kudos, Athos, for making this a more positive discussion. You and I are somewhat close to agreement about immigration. Yes, we need to control our borders. Although a wall may not be terribly effective, I say go ahead and build it just so we can get past the issue. Given our surplus of jobs though, I would like to see us increase the number of immigrants we allow legally. That being said, we need to be selective about who we accept. Nevertheless, most of our homicide problem is home grown, so immigration is only a small part of the problem.

    I believe we already put fathers’ feet to the fire, at least in Illinois. Fathers who fail to pay child support are denied a drivers license at renewal time. Of course, a large number of fathers are financial turnips. No blood to be taken. This of course, brings us back to poverty, which is pretty rare in other advanced countries. I prefer Australia’s work for the dole whereby welfare benefits are pretty generous, but recipients are assigned work by the government and lose eligibility if they do not fulfill their end of the bargain.

    My best guess for the difference between us and all of the less violent cultures lies a different attitude by both voters and government, which affects the life outlook for all of us. For example, We have a greater income disparity than every other advanced nation. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_income_equality
    I suspect that when people feel crapped on, they get angry. Just a guess…although we do have the happiest billionaires in the world!
    We also have a greater percentage of our people in prison that any other advanced nation, so I suspect greater punishment isn’t a very good answer.
    It also shows in health care. We pay way more per person that any other country, but large numbers of us cannot readily get a doctor’s appointment and wind up in the ER only when symptoms become severe. This may also be reflected in that, while we have very advanced facilities, our life expectancy is worse than all other advanced nations.

    The fact that we perennially argue about guns, but rarely seem to explore other possible causes of violence may demonstrate our unwillingness to address complex social issues, preferring to maintain the same decades old battle lines instead.

    Poverty may exacerbate things, but by itself, it does not appear to be the greatest factor. Spain, Italy, and Greece all have higher poverty rates than us, but their homicide rate is much lower. https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/poverty-rate-by-country

    My Australian wife sums it up by saying that in her home country, there was a reasonable degree of security in life whereas here, she says it’s dog eat dog. I dunno. I suspect there’s a lot more to it than this, but it’s a start.

    I suspect that if we can get people to graduate high school and get them into jobs and out of pregnancy in early adulthood, we could make a lot of progress, but how do we accomplish those three goals?

  129. Rincon says:

    One more detail. I’m not sure how important the Christianity is, since almost all of those countries have either a similar or smaller percentage of Christians than we do.

  130. Bill says:

    Rin. Our country was founded based upon a Judeo/Christian view of law and morality, Religion is a value that can give people a sense of belonging and a moral compass. Jews and Christians seemingly are under attack these days and we constantly we are subjected to assaults on our institutions and history and our capitalist representative democratic confederacy.
    George Washington is no longer the brave general that led a rag tag army of farmers against a world military power and an arrogant sovereign and a man who became our first President and was a wise leader that eschewed becoming King but is now, acccording to many, simply a capitalist slave owner exploiting slaves for gain. And, Thomas Jefferson is no longer the inspired thinker that helped form a way of government heretofore unknown to the civilized world, where the rights of man dame not from the King but were innate and came from God. Now this towering historical figure is simply another Capitalist slave owner who fathered children with a slave. And, so names of schools should be changed, statues should be torn down and all white people should bear guilt for the race they were born with and this universal guilt can only be expiated by “reparations” paid to …..?
    All pretty complex stuff. I think Rin that you and I might be able to agree on some things as well. I still want to hear your thoughts on gun control. Confiscate, strictly license? Australia or Switzerland solution?
    I think tha

  131. Athos says:

    Wow. So much to unpack. Welfare tied to work. I believe that was done in the 90s and discontinued today. Some States won’t require it, but when tried, people go to work. My contention is that work increased a persons esteem and self worth. Work is good (I believe that is mentioned in the Bible, regardless, it’s true) As to withholding a drivers license as an incentive to pay alimony, that is NOT the same as raising a child in a two parent (mother/father) home. No offense to the “strong” single mothers out there, or to the homosexual couples that raise kids, the family unit of father/mother/ children is the bedrock of society and civilization (as opposed to the “village” or herd model).

    Income disparity is a fact of life. Always has been, always will be. Today, even our poorest live better than kings of old, agreed? Right now, people pay for entertainment (and hence, entertainers!) but in my lifetime, sports figures have reached billionaire status but when my sewer backs up and I have a flooded bathroom, the plumber is the rock star in my world, get it? Lawyers are too plentiful (and consequently screw up governance with 4,000 page laws that only they can decipher)

    Health care is not health insurance. Why do we, as a society, place our health care needs in the hands of some bureaucrat pencil pusher?

    More later…..

  132. Rincon says:

    Bill: I respect Christianity greatly and its moral code makes a great foundation for a country. I only pointed out that our greater share of it did not seem to help us avoid homicides. I agree with you about the rewriting of history as well. Faulting historical figures for failing to anticipate our change in morality is nit picking at best.

    I think our present system of gun control only needs a little tweaking. There should be no loopholes for the background check requirement. And to be consistent, we should either make a whole lot of occupations legal without a license or there should be a permitting process for people who want to purchase high caliber firearms with rapid fire and large magazines and for people who buy more than say, 5 guns in a two year period. Laws and/or legal reforms are needed to make it feasible to convict people who make straw purchases. Because a gun purchased in Indiana can, and sometimes does kill someone in Chicago the very next day, gun laws need to be federal. A hodgepodge of state laws makes no sense.

    Athos: Income disparity may be a fact of life (although a necessary one), but it is nevertheless interesting that ours is greater than every other advanced country, just like our homicide rate. Are they related or is it coincidental? Poverty does not cause criminality, but the impression of being held down probably can. No proof – just a hunch.

    I agree that two parent homes are the best and that more of them might help reduce crime, but the question is, how do we make them more common?

    Because health care often becomes unaffordable,

  133. Steve says:


    Mass shooters overwhelmingly fit a certain profile, say Jillian Peterson and James Densley, which means it’s possible to ID and treat them before they commit violence.

    But “guns” !

    Eh NYPete?

  134. Athos says:

    Rin, to start – are you saying health care becomes more affordable when we put a government bureaucrat in charge of our doctors, and our diagnosis? My solution is health insurance similar to home, and car insurance. When people perceive something is free, they are not held responsible for what money is spent, nor do they care, do they? And the opportunity for graft, corruption and outright theft is too big a temptation (and would corrupt a Saint!) because the G doesn’t check out the bill, and the patient certainly doesn’t check out the bill. Bad system….

    You’ve stated several times how we are the murder capital of the world (…” ours is greater than every other advanced country, just like our homicide rate. ” ) maybe you’d care to quantify what that means because Mexico, South Africa, Venezuela and El Salvador have way more intentional murders per 100,000 population than we could even dream of! And poor people USED to have self dignity that they wouldn’t dream of taking someone else’s stuff. So many people have worked hard and earned their way thru that making excuses for failure is backdoor way of keeping people on the plantation. Make people own their decisions, and force them to make better ones (thru life’s tough lessons)

    As to legal guns being bought in Indiana and used to murder people in Chicago, I’d have to see your data on that one. Neither you nor petey have even attempted to answer why the FF put the 2nd amendment in our constitution and what purpose it really serves.

    Why is that, rin and petey?

  135. Rincon says:

    “are you saying health care becomes more affordable when we put a government bureaucrat in charge of our doctors, and our diagnosis?” I wouldn’t have thought so, but every other advanced nation has socialized health care and they are all markedly cheaper. I suspect it’s because medicine doesn’t meet the requirements for capitalism very well. Everyone wants the best doctor. They have few good gauges of competence, but most believe the cheapest doctors must be inferior in some way. And of course, nobody price shops when they’re flat on their back in the ER. Price gouging is also considered acceptable in our society and medical providers have the power to do that in spades.

    “When people perceive something is free, they are not held responsible for what money is spent, nor do they care, do they?” That’s a very important consideration. Whether subsidized or not, deductibles and copays are worthwhile. I also think that those who cannot afford those must accept that their care may be limited in some ways. Every other country has methods of preventing abuse. Since they all cost less than us, I have to believe that their methods work better than ours.

    “And the opportunity for graft, corruption and outright theft is too big a temptation”
    Sounds like you’re referring to our present system. Fact is, we pay much, much more.

    “You’ve stated several times how we are the murder capital of the world (…” ours is greater than every other advanced country, just like our homicide rate. ” ) maybe you’d care to quantify what that means because Mexico, South Africa, Venezuela and El Salvador…” You consider those countries advanced???

    “As to legal guns being bought in Indiana and used to murder people in Chicago, I’d have to see your data on that one.” https://abc7chicago.com/chicago-crime-shooting-guns-illinois-gun-laws/11937013/

    Conservatives conscientiously ignore two words in the second Amendment: “well regulated”. Please explain the conservative opinion as to why the Founding Fathers chose to include those two words.

    Nevertheless, I am still interested in figuring out why so many Americans insist on killing people. Here’s one geek’s opinion. Not sure I agree, but it might help explain why terrorism perpetrated by right wingers is so much more common than that by left wingers.

  136. NYpete says:

    In neither of the two ( identical) clips does Hillary Clinton say that the 2016 election was stolen by her.

  137. NYpete says:

    Er, “from her”

  138. Athos says:

    petey, read the Durham report. It’s only 360 pages and it will keep you busy (since you don’t want to watch the youtube videos I gave you about Hillary and her stolen election!)
    Rin, You’re much too smart not to recognize that the US, as the richest nation, spends $4trillion per year on health care and has the best system in the world. Right? Adam Schiff has introduced a “Equal Health Care for All” act that should just about bankrupt our country. Especially with all the illegals getting their “fair share”.

    But guess what? Congress Critters get to keep their OWN Cadillac Health Care because as our elected rulers, they gotta have the best! (on our dime, of course!) Is Adam really worth $3 million? Seems kinda low for such an elite, yes?
    Here’s my question for Adam (and for you) Why should a 38 year old man have the same coverage as a 28 year old woman? Men do not need mammograms, right? Nor do they need pregnancy coverage. And a 60 year old diabetic, overweight smoker doesn’t not need the same coverage as a 70 year old physically fit, active bike riding male. So why NOT have an insurance that is tailored to the individual MUCH LIKE life insurance, or car insurance? And for the love of pete, get the government OUT OF IT! Why would anyone trust the same people that run the VA healthcare???

    The American Bird is the Eagle, not the ostrich!!

    More to follow…..

  139. nypete says:

    1. I watched the YouTube videos you referenced. In not one of them does Hillary Clinton claim that the 2016 election was stolen from her.
    2. Durham was a prosecutor with the power to indict people and seek their conviction for criminal activity. He did not convict anyone and his report does not accuse anyone of criminal activity.
    3. You do not understand and never have understood the economics of health insurance. Why don’t you go back to claiming that ObamaCare is going to lead to a Stalinist Gulag.

  140. Athos says:

    petey, I really wish you’d stop being so obtuse. It makes consensus building impossible!
    1)Is it your contention that Hillary doesn’t feel she was cheated out of being President? You watched those videos and drew the conclusion that Hillary felt Donald won fair and square?
    If so, you and I live in different worlds
    2) Durham’s report puts Obama, Clinton, Biden, Comey, and Brennan all in on the fake Dossier hoax that roiled our country (splitting it down the middle) for at minimum, 3 years; and gave those in the bowels of government their patriotic duty to stop Trump any way they can (cause wouldn’t you do anything to stop Hitler?) As to convictions, there is a statute of limitations (nice slow walk, Durham!) and the idea of AG Garland (to whom the report was addressed) bringing charges on any of the above named scoundrels, is laughable, wouldn’t you say?
    3) ObamaCare is an abject failure. The Dem’s continue to push for Universal Care (socialized medicine for the masses, Cadillac plans for the elite) coupled with more an more states passing euthanasia laws (already determined by Canadian health care panels!) soooo maybe it’s you that doesn’t understand the practical application of health care, petey! (or maybe you think you’ll get one of those Cadillac plans, eh?)

  141. nypete says:

    1. Hillary Clinton has never said that she was “cheated” out of winning the 2016 election. Not in those videos or in any others. It is obvious that Russian disinformation campaigns and bot farms interfered in the campaign, but the extent of the influence can never be measured, could not be used to overturn the results and does not fit the common concept of “stealing an election” — such as the stuff that Fox News had to pay so much money for spreading.
    2. Durham’s failure to indict and convict anyone at all had nothing to do with the “statute of limitations.” That is laughable. Which statute of limitations are you citing?
    3. I don’t know what a “Cadillac” plan is, but mine is quite comprehensive and, thanks to Obamacare, I can’t be denied coverage because of a preexisting condition or a lapse in coverage.
    If ObamaCare is such a “disaster,” why are none of the Republicans talking about repealing it anymore? Perhaps it is because the percentage of Americans without health insurance declined significantly since it came into effect?

  142. Rincon says:

    I have to agree with you, Athos. Obamacare is indeed a failure. It’s only saving grace is that it is better than the abomination that preceded it.

  143. Bill says:

    Durham’s report says that the torment that this Nation and Donald Trump endured was started by Hillary Clinton and the D’s paying a law firm to create a false report that was then leaked to the press and became the basis for the Mueller Investigation and the impeachment.
    What happened and the way it happened looked more like an attempted coup than the January 6th demonstration that turned into a riot.
    The Durham Report is frightening and there are those that would argue that it is this kind of fear that prompted our fore fathers to insist on the inclusion of the First and Second Amendments to the Constitution.

  144. nypete says:

    1, Why do you think Durham, a prosecuted appointed by William Barr, did not prosecute (let along convict) anyone for this “attempted coup”?
    2. How do you explain the fact that the FBI’s investigation was initiated by the fact that a drunken Trump aide boasted to an diplomat of a Five Eyes ally that the campaign was getting information from Russia.
    3. I am really interested in the Second Amendment remedies you propose. What do you have in mind – shooting some FBI agents?

  145. Athos says:

    petey, you are saying Hillary never implied or stated that she was cheated out of the presidency in 2016, have I got that right? Just want to be clear that is what you’re saying, cause I wouldn’t want you be misinterpreted. And for the record, I believe Fox news would have won that lawsuit (possibly having to get it into a neutral court), so I don’t believe Fox got sued for anything other than saying Trump really won the election (kind of like every other news agency, INCLUDING HILLARY CLINTON, said about the 2016 election)

    Durham’s report SHOULD have come out in 2020 BEFORE the election. AG Garland is NOT going to prosecute Obama, Brennan, Comey, Biden or anyone else for that matter, because he’s a corrupt little man. Not one FBI agent will be given a citation let alone shot, petey. But those at the top were in collusion with Hill’s Demo party hacks on this attempted coup of a duly elected President. The press was all in on this. Either as useful idiots or willing participants.

    You know as well as I that ObamaCare is the camel’s nose under the tent. The stated goal has always been Universal Care (you know, Government run heath care – still no comments from you fellas about that great VA coverage….what’s up with that, fellas??) And last I checked there are still 30 million Americans without, which reminds me of the number of uninsured that got us INTO this boondoggle in the first place.

    And just to restate the obvious (this is for you, too, Rin) Health insurance is NOT health care.

  146. Rincon says:

    True or false: After three-and-a-half-years, Durham indicted three men, one of whom pleaded guilty to a charge unrelated to the origins of the FBI investigation, and was sentenced to probation; the other two men were tried and acquitted. In both trials, Durham alleged the defendants had deceived the FBI, rather than alleging the FBI acted improperly toward Trump. Although the report alleged FBI confirmation bias and a “lack of analytical rigor”, it did not allege political motivation and Durham failed to find what Trump alleged to be a “deep state” plot against him. The report largely repeated information that had been previously known, with no new significant revelations of FBI misconduct in its Crossfire Hurricane investigation.

    So the Mueller investigation was an attempted coup, but January 6 was not? I suppose both had similar purposes, but the Mueller investigation was conducted legally and secured 8 convictions in open court, 5 of whom were Trump associates . The takeover of the Capitol was not only illegal (Roughly 350 individuals have been sentenced for their Jan. 6 activities. Of those, 192 have been sentenced to incarceration.), but Trump clearly abetted by refusing to do anything at all for over 2 hours, even though he was the only person who had the power to stop it in its tracks. What was he waiting for? He refuses to give the American people the dignity of an explanation, but his fans still love him.

    Now, let’s compare that with the definition of a coup: “a sudden, violent, and unlawful seizure of power from a government.” In light of that definition, I have to ask you to explain why the Mueller investigation was an attempted coup, but the Capitol riot was just an innocent gathering of tourists.

  147. Rincon says:

    “The stated goal has always been Universal Care”
    Why is that bad? The 40 or so other advanced nations with universal care all have arguably better systems, since they are all a lot cheaper and the citizens of all of those countries live longer. Why do you argue against proven results with weak theories?

    there are still 30 million Americans without (insurance, I assume)”
    Yes. 30 million more than would be the case under universal care.

    The Republicans had a chance to get rid of Obamacare when they had the Presidency and majorities in both houses of Congress, but didn’t act at all. As I understand it, Americans got used to the idea that insurance companies can no longer jack up rates on those with chronic conditions and deny coverage to the sick. What is your guess?

    I haven’t discussed the VA because even if we came to agree that it sucks,

  148. Rincon says:

    Sorry, WordPress glitch. To continue, even if we came to agree that the VA sucks, it would be only a single example of a bad system when there are 40 other systems of universal health care that seem to be working reasonably well. I consider it a red herring.

  149. Athos says:

    According to Barry O:
    “Today what I’m most concerned about is the fact that, because of the splintering of the media we almost occupy different realities, right? If something happens that, you know, in the past everybody could say, ‘All right, we may disagree on how to solve it, but at least we all agree that, yeah, that’s an issue,’” he said.
    “Now people will say, ‘Well, that didn’t happen,’ or, ‘I don’t believe that,’ or, ‘I don’t care about the science,’ or, ‘I’m not concerned about these experts, you know, ’cause they’re just all liberals’ or, you know, ‘That’s just conservative propaganda,’” he continued.” (From the Hill, Lauren Sforza 5/16/23)

    and thus, the futility of bringing points up on this blog.

    Rinny, don’t you understand that if OUR government can’t do VA healthcare any better than they do (it sucks, right?) then they will be incapable of exponentially expanding the coverage for the 350 million citizens/inhabitants. And if you really feel that 40 other countries do it better than us, then you should really consider moving there. Fair enough?

    Overthrow the government. What happened on Jan. 6 was far from overthrowing the government of the US. How many died that day, Rin? How many automatic rifles, machine guns, were confiscated? You want to see the violent overthrow of a government? Youtube a Mexican cartel shooting it out with a town’s police force.

    Durham’s report stated that the FBI knew the Steele Dossier was not verifiable, and was produced by the Democrat party (Hill’s shills). And the 7th floor took over the investigation preventing anyone of authority putting a stop to it. The top brass of the FBI, which once stood for Fidelity, Bravery, Integrity; harassed, lied to a Federal FISA court, and split our country into almost warring factions, of which we still haven’t rectified, have we? (Wonder where that great unifier Prez Brandon, is?)

    And the absolute anti American treatment of those people languishing in jail, awaiting a trial for over 2 years is a first class travesty that will be the embarrassment of epic proportions, when history is finally written.

    Law and order, Rin. Equal justice under the law is dead under this regime. Can it return, without violence?

    Got any F-16s laying around you don’t wanna use, Rinny?

  150. Rincon says:

    Although I also have some doubts about our government’s ability to run our entire system ala VA Adm., I am more optimistic about a privately run system with a single payer, as in other countries. Unfortunately, our willingness or ability to improve our present health care system is simply not showing results after 50 or more years of underperformance. We’re still at the bottom of the class. Although we could try to make a wonderful capitalistic system (even though private insurance is socialistic just by its nature), I have to ask why you would trust our government to invent an entirely new, experimental system, but not to implement a tried and true system already devised and successfully run by others.

    As for January 6, I still generally have faith in our judicial system. Sorry that you don’t. I also wonder how the President, who had the ability to defuse the whole thing in minutes, chose instead to let it roll for over two hours. Still no explanation. The most likely in my mind is that he was waiting to see if uprisings would occur throughout the country i.e., he was hoping for a coup. Since they didn’t, he finally shut it down. Do you have an alternative explanation?

    Durham’s report moaned and groaned, but failed to find a criminal offense anywhere – but you buy it hook, line, and sinker. Same with the so called stealing of the election. The Mueller Commission and the January 6 investigation on the other hand, went through the proper legal process, including trials by jury and by Trump appointed judges and got huge results. So now, you think the justice system is corrupt as is our voting system, and the government is too incompetent to accomplish what 40 others have done, yet you love your country. Is it possible that you love the American people and the landscape, but hate our political system? I guess that would still be loving your country.

  151. Rincon says:

    Off the subject, but these pictures are fascinating. Global warming skeptics need not look though. They will call it a hoax, since for these animals to be revealed, they must have been in the highest temperatures seen in tens of thousand of years.

  152. Bill says:

    Rin, are you saying that this finding shows that today’s temperatures are the highest temperatures are the highest in tens of thousands of years? I am a bit slow at times but I don’t understand your conclusion.
    I am not a climate change denier. I believe that it constantly (over years) is changing but there is scant evidence that man is responsible for the change and even less evidence that he can do anything about it.

  153. Anonymous says:

    Although a lot of the evidence is not very intuitive, these carcasses appeal to common sense. Had any significant thawing occurred at any time, their remains would be mush; therefore, this must be the warmest time in their locations since they were initially frozen. Since there have been 300 centuries pass by in the last 30,000 years, the odds of this being the warmest century are 1 in 300 if random climate fluctuation is the cause. Although possible, it would be quite a long shot. That changes the default assumption. The burden of proof is on the skeptics, who claim that the warming is natural despite such long odds. Add to that the fact that the foremost climate authority accurately predicted today’s temperature 32 years ago in 1991*. Also add that the prediction was considered extremely unlikely in the absence of man made warming, since temperatures 32 years ago were at a historic high. If temperature change was random, then a return to the mean would have been most likely at the time. Put it together, and the postulate that the warming is natural becomes extremely unlikely.

    Click to access ipcc_90_92_assessments_far_wg_I_spm.pdf

    Scenarios B and C are the pertinent ones.

  154. Rincon says:

    Oops, anonymous is me this time.

  155. Rincon says:

    Sorry, it’s a long report. The predictions are on page 1, #3

  156. Rincon says:

    Athos: I found an interesting fact about our health care system. It might help point to answers, but doesn’t favor either of our views. In an article critical of Britain’s National Health Service, the Economist said, “As a share of GDP spent by rich world governments and compulsory insurance schemes, only America spends more on hospitals (than Britain). This makes no sense. A system focused on hospitals is one designed to treat people only after they become really sick. That is the equivalent of buying more fire extinguishers while dismantling the smoke alarms.”
    Sounds like both countries need to intervene earlier in the course of disease. Seems like that might be cheaper and more effective.
    “How to Fix the NHS” May 27 issue, p. 12

  157. Bill says:

    Our health system is far from perfect. I personally have had recent experiences with the health system that have made me grateful for some and angry with others. It seems like more in the industry are attuned to the Hypocritical Oath. Medicine is no longer a profession but just another big business.

  158. Bill says:

    Out of curiosity, how many Ice ages has the earth undergone and what were the causes?
    By the way, did we start out at the beginning of time as a verdant planet, filled with flora and fauna? What caused the sea that once covered most of Nevada to evaporate? Was it global warming? Probably. What caused that warming? Was it mankind?
    I am still waiting for all of the dire predictions about climate and the weather to come true. We must be getting close or have passed those deadlines.
    I lived in fear of of Nuclear Winterm ol=zone depletion, global warming and now climate change, it begins o sound to me like a lot of people are probably making money out of it.
    Forgive me. I can’t quite quit asking questions. In the view of the new left, that is a criminal offense.
    I hear that California now has a law against questioning current orthodoxy on medical matters. So much for the scientific method. How many of our advances were made by those who chose not to adhere to the current dogma.

  159. Athos says:

    Rinny, are you trolling us? Privately run systems with a single payer. Is that health care INSURANCE systems? Like England and Canada and Cuba and China? And would our hospital ERs be overrun because our government makes it against the law to deny anyone service, even if they are in our country illegally and have no insurance and just have a runny nose? And are you saying Pfizer would be the one you trust to take care of your health care decisions? (or JNJ or Merck or Moderna)

    Global warming…What year do you think the earth will be inhabitable? Will it happen in your lifetime? Do you really think Russia, India and/or China will stop trying to develop their nation if only we get rid of our gas fired vehicles, and ban A/C? And for the record, who is this “…foremost climate authority…” that accurately predicted, uh, just exactly what did the FCA(foremost climate authority) predict anyway? Don’t remember seeing that headline anywhere, Rin.

    As to the Durham report. Do you remember anything about WaterGate, Rin? Any remembrance of what drove Tricky Dicky out of office? What Nixon did was peanuts to what Obama & Company did to Trump. Is it just Republicans that the law pertains and Democrats go free? BLM and Antifa burn cities, destroy our history by toppling down statues that none of them could design, and kill dozens of people BUT a 4 hour demonstration in our Nations Capitol, with the only loss of life being an unarmed female Veteran protester, and Katey bar the door!

    And does it matter WHO appointed the judge that keeps citizens in jail without bail, many in solitary confinement for over 2 years? That doesn’t bother you Rin? Does that remind you of the United States of America we learned about in school? Or the USSR or Fidel’s Cuba?

    And for the record HOW LONG did those people wait in Benghazi before Obama/Hillary sent in the calvary? Of course, Barry O made his election rally in Vegas the next day, didn’t he? And you’re complaining about a 2 hour window from Trump? And just exactly where are you getting your info about Trump “waiting to see if uprisings would occur throughout the country i.e., he was hoping for a coup.”? That would make SOME storyline, wouldn’t it?

    I’m gonna leave you with one more. The press and corrupt DAs are trying desperately to get Trump over his “grab ’em by their p_ssys” comment, and successfully found him guilty of being Trump (but not rape, just pay $5mill to some bimbo) HOWEVER Biden, who was credibly accused of rape by Tara Reade, was buried on page 19 on Easter Sunday, and dismissed by our corrupt NY Times (a former newspaper). And the same crew ran 24/7 coverage over the slanderous impossible gang rape charges against Brett Kavanaugh (just google Swetnick or Blaise Ford if your memory fails you)

    2 kinds of justice. And for now, the lying, corrupt left holds all the culture, news and academia so the Truth (sea levels rising, Rin?) doesn’t stand a chance. But America has withstood enemies of Freedom and Liberty in the past.

    And I believe, we will continue to do so, Rin. And that’s the America I love.

  160. Athos says:

    Bill, was that subtle dig at our medical professionals with your “Hypocritical Oath” as opposed to the Hippocratic one?

    Loved it! Sorry if pointing it out ruins the put down!

  161. Anonymous says:

    Not sure what sort of fairy tale land Bill is living in but it sure ain’t against any law for any medical facility to deny people treatment for anything OTHER than ACUTE LIFE THREATENING CONDITIONS and even then, so long as the patient is “stabilized” the facility is free to push them right on the street as they do now.

    At least in this country. Land of the free and such…..

  162. Anonymous says:

    And “the Durham Report”?

    You mean the report that the special investigator appointed by Trump’s lap dog, appointed only to appease the orange stain so that people would stop being mean to him that was issued only after he spent millions and millions of taxpayer dollars to try and find ANYTHING criminal against any of the people Bill kindly identifies as criminals but yet COMPLETELY FAILED. In fact, only a single incredibly insignificant guilty verdict came out of this witchhunt and of course even Durham himself admitted, albeit in a footnote, that neither Hilly Clinton nor her campaign DID ANYTHING WRONG at all.

    Sound and fury.

    but yeah, a report where Durham had no responsibility to the law, just a lot of red meat for the red masses.

  163. Anonymous says:

    And I guess it doesn’t matter who appoints judges EXCEPT every time the far right wing is prosecuted for some wrongdoing, all you hear about is “Obama judges” or “Soros judges” or some other crap from the far right wing and so when a Trump judge finds something that the far right wing did wrong, its especially clearly wrong cause otherwise they wouldn’t have found such a thing.

    As for instance the completely unqualified judge who appointed the special master to review documents in the Mara Lago case when the entire judicial world KNEW that this was outside authority but yet it gave the retard who appointed her time which was all he wanted from her. A decision that was condemn in every legal circle that I’m aware of and reversed immediately…following each appeal by the orange satan.

  164. Anonymous says:


    I always find it interesting that people who bring up Bengazi always fail to commend Hillary Clinton for voluntarily subjecting herself to more than 11 hours of testimony under oath in front of a rabid group of far right wing republican legislators about what she did during that event.

    And those same people never fail to claim that right wing politicians, like the orange satan, should NEVER subject themselves to the authority of a “partisan” group of legislators (like the republicans on the Jan. 6 committee) to explain HIS actions on that day.

  165. That was some screed, Athos.

  166. Anonymous says:

    Thank you Thomas

    please change all my references to Bill to that..

  167. Athos says:

    Thank you, Tom. Those on the left (far and otherwise) could never figure out why almost half the country supported Trump. They still don’t. Anny comes up with this ” ain’t against any law” kamala word salad, but denies the reality of most hospitals ERs (in this town, anyway) so why does he do it? Why are sane people, conservative or liberal, constantly being told to believe what we can see is clearly a lie?

    And when we speak up, we’re told to shut up?

    The Jan 6 committee with partisan Republicans? Why were Jim Jordan and Jim Banks denied being seated on that committee by the Speaker of the House? Am I suppose to cheer Liz Cheney and Adam K? And why is it that no matter WHO is Speaker, we can’t have access to the surveillance tapes? Tucker Carlson releases a couple of minutes and now is gone from Fox news and no more access?

    Do those of the left see how this may reek of a coverup? Can no one voice WHAT DO YOU HAVE TO HIDE by not releasing those tapes? And for that matter, has anyone backed off the Biden Comment of Jan. 6″Worst Attack on Democracy Since Civil War.”?

    And anny shoves the knife in a little deeper by commending Hillary (” What difference at this point does it make?”) Clinton for “subjecting herself” to 11 hours of congressional testimony. And half that time was spent by non rabid Dems holding her hand, wasn’t it?

    And is it at all possible for the annys, peteys, and Rinnys of this blog to acknowledge that keeping an American citizen in jail for over 2 years awaiting trial and being denied bail is anti-American? No matter WHO appointed the judge?

  168. Rincon says:

    As I understand it, the timing of the recent spate of ice ages is caused by changes in the Earth’s orbit around the Sun, but they didn’t begin until about 2.5 million years ago. The Earth was warmer prior to that. It is theorized that the Himalayan Mountains, which resulted from India crashing (geologically speaking) into Asia, began the monsoons. The CO2 in the huge amounts of rainfall reacted with the substrate of the mountains, depleting much of the CO2 in the atmosphere. This theory though, is questioned by some. https://www.businessinsider.in/the-weathering-himalayas-might-not-be-behind-earths-cooling-over-the-past-15-million-years/articleshow/71271248.cms

    But we’ve had other ice ages farther back in time. The most severe is sometimes termed snowball Earth, and occurred some 700 million years ago. Thick ice covered the entire planet at that time. https://news.mit.edu/2020/sunlight-triggered-snowball-earths-ice-ages-0729#:~:text=A%20runaway%20snowball,the%20poles%20to%20the%20equator.

    “I am still waiting for all of the dire predictions about climate and the weather to come true. We must be getting close or have passed those deadlines.” I don’t know who you were reading, but the planet is warming just about as fast as the world’s climate authorities predicted for the UN in 1990 & 1992. The reference is in my 5/29 post. If and when the “dire predictions” come about, it will be a bit too late, because CO2 is stable in the atmosphere, and will take 300 to 1,000 years to clear according to NASA https://climate.nasa.gov/news/2915/the-atmosphere-getting-a-handle-on-carbon-dioxide/#:~:text=Once%20it's%20added%20to%20the,timescale%20of%20many%20human%20lives.

    But hey, as with our debt and Social Security, we’ll just put it all on the backs of our grandchildren and great grandchildren. Why worry about the future when death comes soon?

    You say you live in fear of “Nuclear Winterm ol=zone depletion, global warming and now climate change” Maybe so, but if you’re a typical (and you may not be) Conservative, your real fear is the mythical, or perhaps legendary, Deep State, a vast conspiracy of liberal “elites” that don’t have nearly as much money, but somehow exert much more political power than the the conservative rich who, despite their vast wealth, wield little political power. I keep that one filed next to the story of the Three Little Pigs. BTW, the leaders of the world’s nations took care of the ozone issue long ago. Must have been the beginnings of the vast conspiracy.

  169. Rincon says:

    It’s a bit much to reply to everything in a screed, but I’m glad Anonymous took care of some of it. I’m not sure I understand why you feel that the surveillance tapes were covered up by liberals when they were provided to a widely watched conservative spokesman. Seems to me it’s the liberals who should complain. Were they given access? Carlson is available to be picked up by any conservative media and will show up again, but I suspect he’s going to become another Geraldo Rivera. Maybe it’s because he’s discredited himself to all but the most rabid fans.

    I’m not sure what to think about Pelosi’s vetoing of Jordan and Banks, both who voted against certifying the election, for the January 6 Committee. On the one hand, they were part of the attempted takeover of the government by Trump and company. Should a judge allow a fellow gang member to sit on a jury for an accused drug dealer? On the other hand, a couple of Devil’s advocates would have been highly disruptive, but might have brought a contrasting view into focus. As I understand it though, three of the Republican nominees, Rodney Davis, Troy Nehls and Kelly Armstrong were accepted by Pelosi, but in a pique, McCarthy pulled them all because of Jordan and Banks. Why did he decide that accepting three out of five was not good enough? Simple. He had an excuse for staying out of it and so, could claim that everything found was the result of partisan politics. And you bought it.



    The facts remain that Trump delayed for two hours with no explanation. He lost more than 50 lawsuits over the election, failed to persuade fellow Republican legislatures to help overturn the election, failed to entice Georgian officials to “come up with” 11,000 votes, and failed to persuade his teammate Pence to defy the law (and these are only the arm twistings that we know about . The Mueller Investigation secured convictions on a bevy of Trump insiders and found enough evidence to convince all but the irrational that Trump cooperated with the Russians without technically being in collusion, while Durham scored a goose egg and yet, Republicans say it was Mueller who was in the wrong. Of course this is only a partial list of Trump shenanigans. All of his dozens of scandals are less than nothing in the eyes of his supporters. If not convicted, then they claim that he’s being persecuted. When he is found culpable, it makes him a martyr, victimized by his enemies.

  170. Bill says:

    Ah…my friend Atyos. You have posed so many questions to Thomas.

    Whether your questions are rhetorical or actual inquires,, there is probably no single answer but IMO, there is one common denominator, the Media.

    As Thomas can tell you, Editors and Owners of media determine what the public sees or hears. The internet has lessened that power to some extent but as recent revelations reveal, it is still an awesome power.

    Few of the Public are interested in looking past the headline nor interested in taking the time or effort to analyze what is said (or not said) and so much of what is said is a reflection of the value system of the editors, owners, reporters and friends.
    The Media today,with few exceptions is simply a Greek Chorus in support of the Left,
    Words don’t mean much these days nor does truth.

    It is my observation that when the Left does something the Media calls it “leadership” When the Right does the exact same thing, the Media labels it “partisanship”.y
    In the 1980’s the Nevada Republican led Assembly passed a bill establishing a Martin Luther Kin Jrs. birthday a holiday. The passage of that bill was ignored by the Press and when the bill died in the State Senate it was barely mentioned. The Media had been clamoring for such a bill and when it appeared in the Republican side of the Legisature, it was ignored.

    I would guess that the Bill was ignored because it did not fit the narrative of the Media.
    As we have learned in the Trump era, the Media is almost an un-indicted co-conspirator with the Lett. Reporting the Dossier hoax and not reporting the Hillary destruction of evidence and the Hunter Biden narrative.

  171. Rincon says:

    You’re on target Bill, that the media has immense power because it chooses what stories it will tell, but in a society where mostly rich people own media outlets, one would expect a rightward tilt, not left. Any theories as to why this is not the case? I have one, but would like to hear yours. Even if most of the media tilts left, right wing views are readily available, as Fox News found to its great profit. With that in mind, I have to ask, why the “media” skews to the left so much? Conspiracy? Or is it possible that when you stand on the far right, everything else looks left?

  172. Bill says:

    I really don’t have an answer but will start with a few comments.

    I’m not sure who or what defines either a conservative or a liberal.

    In earlier years, the “Left” were the defenders of free speech. Today they oppose free speech unless it agrees with their views.
    Our institutions of higher learning encourage and teach that it is “morally” defensible to condemn free speech and it is morally condemn and even harm those who have ideas or opinions other than he Censors. That is tyrannical and Fascist. But, nevertheless we have institutions like the ACLCU
    who no longer defend all speech and we have institutions lkie Stanford Law School where speech is suppressed by students and the students were defended by faculty.
    There are countless cases of speakers being barred or disrupted prohibited And many colleges have rules prohibiting certain kinds of “speech”. Liberals are sounding like Fascists and Tyrants.
    One of our problems, IMO, is that educational system has been taken over by professional educators. I once heard college professor lament the creation of a college of education on a University Campus.

    Parents have systematically abandoned control over their children and parents are only vehicles to create children to be taught. been excluded from any control over their children and are not part of their education. Schools don’t teach and the average college student cannot tell you who the parties to the war of 1812 were and I suspect many of them would not even be able to tell you when it was fought.
    I don’t think that they teach much history or government in K-12 and when you get to college it is an elective. When I was in the 6th grade, I knew more U.S. and World history than the average high school graduate today.
    I know this is not on point to your questions but it did allow me to vent.
    I have been a moderate or consdrvative all my life. I have never been rich enough to be a Liberal, and that my friend is part of the problem. I’ll add some more later and get into some other matters.
    Perhaps the one who should be responding to you is Thomas. He knows the business inside out but does he dare tell?

  173. Anonymous says:

    Conservatives have always been the party of free speech suppression which is why liberals had to enshrine the right to free speech into our Constitution and continue to defend it to this day.

    Perhaps the reason history is “no longer taught” in schools is that the right wing has destroyed public school education so that their efforts to destroy the rights enshrined in the Constitution, including the First Amendment Rights to Free Speech would not be known by people living in the US? Hey, this theory is at least as supported as one asserting that “they don’t teach much history” anymore and that people today know more than some average high school graduate when most people today saying such things are barely able to remember what they ate for breakfast much less any history.

    Its easy to focus on right wingers throughout American history who have tried to stop people from saying stuff (and let me tell you that there are people today that SHOULD definitely just stop saying stuff because just because you can say something doesn’t mean that its true or that you should say it at all even if it is) Joe McCarthy is just an easy example, but maybe the most recent example of a guy the right is even now raising up on their shoulders (and I’ll get to Trump later) Gov. DeSantis has banned books, banned teachers, banned subject matter, fired people for speaking, and has done much more than anyone in the public eye today (other than the aforementioned former “president”) to impair individual rights to free speech and yet, the right wing absolutely ignores or even applauds him for doing it.

    The 1619 Project, Critical Race Theory, even the history of slavery in this country has been blocked time and time again by folks on the right professing that race shouldn’t be taught in school and DEFINITELY the grotesque history of white treatment of black people shouldn’t be and why you ask? Well because then all sorts of negative consequences might happen like people would question why it happened and what the results were on people living today and to what extent it still is happening; and we can’t have that can we?

    So much more but so little time so I’ll stop now but I’ll be back…

  174. Anonymous says:

    Came across this after I wrote what I wrote and its just the latest example of folks on the right doing all they can to impair the rights to free speech they so often claim are being impaired by the “left”.

    Between Florida and its “Don’t Say Stuff about things” laws, and Texas banning all kinds of text books (which is important because publishers have to do what Texas says because they’re a huge part of the market for textbooks in this country) and Utah “Mom” for liberty going around the country and forcing schools to take books off their shelves cause we can’t have our little ones reading and stuff can we? The folks in red states seem to HATE the First Amendment sometimes.

    Maybe they didn’t actually read the right history?

    “Group Challenges Arkansas Law That Would Criminalize Access to Some Books”

  175. The law would require certain material to be placed in an “adults only” section. It does not censor material entirely, but leaves it up to parents to determine whether their children may access such material.

    The Times also reports: “State Senator Dan Sullivan, who sponsored the bill, defended the law in an opinion piece in The Arkansas Democrat-Gazette in May.

    “’We don’t exempt pharmacists from drug-dealing laws, slaughterhouses from animal-cruelty laws and doctors from sexual-assault laws,’ he wrote. ‘Yet prior to my bill, teachers and librarians, who are the closest to our children, were 100 percent legally free to provide children obscene material at their jobs.’”

  176. Anonymous says:

    I’m sorry Thomas the First Amendment doesn’t say anything about people having First Amendment Rights subject to their parents oversight though right?

    I mean, are you defending this impairment?

  177. Anonymous says:

    And according to this, even outright bans of books are supported by nearly 40% of republicans. Noteworthy is that the analysis released by PEN America shows that the states with the most book bans are all generally classified as red states (and ruby red at that) which to me speaks volumes about who is is that really is against free speech…maybe its me.

    “About half of all Republicans oppose banning books in schools, even as many GOP lawmakers throughout the country have implemented laws restricting materials being taught in the classroom, according to a poll released Friday.

    The NPR/Ipsos poll shows 51 percent of Republicans oppose state lawmakers passing laws to ban certain books and remove them from classrooms and libraries, including 31 percent who said they strongly oppose it. More than 45 percent also said they oppose individual school boards banning books.

    About a third of Republican respondents said they support state lawmakers passing laws on books bans, while about 40 percent said they support school boards taking action.

    An analysis from PEN America released in April found that 1,477 book bans were put into place during the first half of the 2022-23 school year, covering 874 unique books. States with the most book bans — Texas, Florida, Missouri, Utah and South Carolina — have all implemented laws that at least somewhat restrict content allowed to be present in public school libraries.”


  178. Anonymous says:

    In the face of the almost never ending parade of folks on the right who take all the obviously unconstitutional actions they can to stop free speech, its very hard to understand why folks on the right don’t see what’s happening unless maybe the damn media is keeping it from them? Maybe (since we seem to be able to just say stuff without any tie to reality) what’s really going on is that the media is so far to the right, that the information about who is really doing what in this country to stop people from being able to speak freely without impairment is being HIDDEN from us as part of their agenda to subvert the US Constitution?

    “A federal judge ruled on Friday that a Tennessee law banning drag shows in public or in places where children could view them is unconstitutional, finding that it violates freedom of speech protections.

    U.S. District Judge Thomas Parker said in his ruling that the law, which Gov. Bill Lee (R) signed in March, is both “unconstitutionally vague and substantially overbroad.”


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