Who is the enemy and how to confront it?

What are the threats Biden’s Department of Homeland Security is concerned about?

Of course, according to a national terrorism advisory bulletin put out this week by DHS, it is all those quacks spreading “mis- dis- and mal-information” about election fraud and COVID-19.

The bulletin warns against:

The proliferation of false or misleading narratives, which sow discord or undermine

public trust in U.S. government institutions:

— For example, there is widespread online proliferation of false or misleading narratives

regarding unsubstantiated widespread election fraud and COVID-19. Grievances

associated with these themes inspired violent extremist attacks during 2021.

Though it is one of those “government institutions,” nowhere in the bulletin does the word “police” appear, as in, you know, anti-police riots staged by the likes of those calling themselves Antifa and Black Lives Matter.

Who is the enemy?

This alarm over what the bulletin calls “false or misleading narratives, and conspiracy theories” also hints mightily that such “free speech” needs to be curbed in the name of public safety. The bulletin advises: “Keep yourself safe online and maintain digital and media literacy to recognize and build resilience to false or misleading narratives.”

(Does anyone else wince a bit at the use of the term Homeland Security and hear not too distant strains of “Deutschland über alles” in their heads?)

48 comments on “Who is the enemy and how to confront it?

  1. reziac says:

    “(Does anyone else wince a bit at the use of the term Homeland Security and hear not too distant strains of “Deutschland über alles” in their heads?)”

    Yeah. I remember that sinking feeling it was first announced under Bush Jr.

  2. Anonymous says:

    Now there’s something we can agree on.

  3. Steve says:

    Does anyone else wince a bit….

    Ayuh, a bit more than a bit.

  4. Athos says:

    Just wait until the US truckers roll next week! This group of political elites REALLY hate freedom, don’t they?

  5. Rincon says:

    Our enemies killed about 3,000 of us in 2001, so we gave away many of our freedoms and spent trillions fighting those forces. Now, another enemy has killed 900,000 of us, and many believe that essentially nothing should have been done. Just a bit inconsistent, don’t you think?

  6. Athos says:

    Enjoying the Winter Olympics, Rinny?

    The very 1st Democrat that comes out and says, “We were wrong about Covid and the Republicans were right” will earn my vote

  7. Athos says:

    But on another excellent point you bring up about taking our shoes off in airports (and not being allowed to bring our own bottles of water into the terminals) “Nothing is so permanent as a temporary government program” R. Reagan #40

  8. NYPete says:

    Not surprised to see that Athos is pro-shoe bomber.

  9. Athos says:

    “Not surprised to see that Athos is pro-shoe bomber.” Oh, to calumniate one’s superiors, thy name is petey!

    Nice stretch, you tyrannical toady!

    And to think, I’m commanded by Christ to “Bless those that curse you”.

  10. NYPete says:

    How can a “toady” be “tyrannical”? I mean, if I were a tyrant, I wouldn’t be anyone’s toady, amirite?

  11. Rincon says:

    On what basis do you say the Republicans were right about COVID, Athos? According to Johns Hopkins U, 280 of every 100,000 of us have died from COVID, the highest death rate of any advanced country. In contrast are the figures from other countries: South Korea: 13, Japan: 16, Canada: 94, Denmark: 70, Australia: 18. And they whupped us even though we had the clear advantage of having the best vaccines available the earliest. Now, we can certainly look at economic impact, but at least by death toll, the Republicans appear to be about as wrong as they could possibly be. Letting COVID go was not a good answer, medically speaking.
    https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/mortality.

  12. Rincon says:

    Getting back on topic of misinformation, tell me, did the Republicans ever come up with any real evidence of widespread voting fraud, or are they just repeating a lie?

  13. ATLANTA — A federal cybersecurity agency is reviewing a report that alleges security vulnerabilities in voting machines used by Georgia and other states and says the document shouldn’t be made public until the agency has had time to assess and mitigate potential risks.

    The report has been under seal since July in federal court in Atlanta, part of a long-running lawsuit challenging Georgia’s voting machines. Its author, J. Alex Halderman, said in sworn declarations filed publicly with the court that he examined the Dominion Voting Systems machines for 12 weeks and identified “multiple severe security flaws” that would allow bad actors to install malicious software. https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory/feds-oppose-release-voting-machine-report-82828143

  14. Anonymous says:

    Maybe I missed it Thomas but where, in anything written, does it say that there was evidence of widespread voting fraud?

    Because, as I read what you posted here, it says that there is a vulnerability in the machines that could be exploited right? Not that it was exploited, not that it was exploited in favor of one candidate, and DEFINITELY not exploited in favor of President Biden.

    And of course, it does say that it is a report, that alleges vulnerabilities, not that those vulnerabilities were proven right?

  15. NYPete says:

    Ha, ha, ha. This again.

  16. Athos says:

    petey, you’re not one of the tyrants, you’re merely sucking up to them (I believe Khrushchev called you “useful idiots” – my term of “tyrannical toadies” seemed more fitting)

    Rinny, the study basically showed that Democrat states that masked up and locked down had the same results as “free states” that didn’t use vaccine or mask mandates (especially on their own children) when it came to the spread and death of/from Covid 19 BUT the economic, social and well being of the people was definitively better in the “free” states. Or did I misread something?

    After almost 2 years there seems to be a newfound push to differentiate between people dying of covid vs people dying of some other disease with covid (wouldn’t hurt if they eliminated all the car accident and gun shot covid deaths) and further break down the demographics of just exactly who died. Example: In Clark county (Las Vegas pop. approx 2.2million) 68.2% of deaths were over 65 years old. Less than 10% of deaths occurred to people under the age of 50, with 0.3% of/with Covid deaths to people under the age of 25. source: Southern Nevada Health District covid dashboard.

    Tell me why we shut down public schools, again? Or paid young people (under 50) to stay home?

    As to voter fraud (election being rigged), the hardest part of accepting this vote was Brandon gathering 12 million more votes that Barry 0 for the biggest vote total of any President. As a loyal democrat, don’t you find it odd that Joe was much more popular than Zero?

    The previous 4 elections had a vote turn out of 60% (or under) eligible voters casting their ballot. Then came the 2020 elections and 22million votes more than 2016, were cast (66.1%) Mail in ballots anyone?

    Couple all those stats with the current CNN poll that shows 74% of all likely voters want ANYONE other than Joe to run in 2024. What happened to all that Brandon support, fellas? (81 million strong!)

  17. NYPete says:

    Athos, I gotta admit you make a heck of a good point there: if you are over age 65 and you die of Covid, a plastic tube stuck down your throat, your lungs destroyed, it really shouldn’t count in the casualty statistics. I mean, if you are over 65 your life doesn’t really count as much anyway. Maybe we should count all deaths of people over 65 as half a death for Covid counting purposes.

  18. Athos says:

    You could start by eliminating all “Covid” deaths of people who died with 4 or more co-morbidities. (Colin Powell comes to mind). And of course, eliminate all traffic fatalities of people that died of Covid. But to start, the Feds must stop rewarding hospitals with extra reimbursement for Covid deaths (or Covid hospitalization – like treating a broken leg of a patient that tests positive with covid)

    That would cut down on a lot of fear, nest-pas?

  19. NYPete says:

    Yeah, right. If, like Colin Power, you have long-running multiple myeloma and your lungs are destroyed by Covid, we shouldn’t list covid as a cause of death. And if you have Alzheimer’s, why list the Covid that puts you into the hospital as a cause of your death at all? After all, as Athos so sagely points out, the medical community is engaged in a conspiracy, a great big fat conspiracy to list hospitalizations and deaths as Covid-related, all for the almighty dollar.
    BTW, Athos himself says that he had Covid. I wonder if he was telling the truth?

  20. Athos says:

    Makes you wonder, doesn’t it, petey?

  21. Athos says:

    But when it comes to lying, no one can beat CNN’s very own Dr. Leana Wen, In a 3 week span she went from quarantining all non vaxxed to “time to take off the masks!” “There’s 3 kinda people in the US, those that wear the mask, those that don’t and us that follow the science”.

    At least the clown show at the CDC has been consistent. They just keep on lying about wearing cloth masks (’cause, don’t you know, they prevent covid!) Common sense is out the window with these power mad bureaucrats. Ever see someone sneeze while wearing a mask? What do they do? They remove the mask so they don’t have a mask full of snot in their face! The theory is maybe doable but the application doesn’t work, does it?

    As to the medical community’s conspiracy? It’s called “human nature”, petey. See an opportunity, TAKE the opportunity (cause after all, the big G is giving it away, and if you don’t take it, someone else will). And how many hospitals almost went broke when there were no elective surgeries allowed? Remember that?

    I thought a smart NY guy would figure that out, by now……

  22. NYPete says:

    Yup, all a big scam by doctors and nurses. They fake the test results to get you into the hospital with a Covid diagnosis so they can clean up on that sweet government money. Ask any doctor to tell you (confidentially, of course,) what is going on and you will get the real story.
    I wonder if that’s what happened to Athos when he (so he claims) came down with Covid …

  23. Rincon says:

    Athos, I never said the half witted lockdowns in any of our states was effective. Living in one of them, I can tell you that the weak measures instituted were largely ignored in many ways. You failed though, to address the numerous countries that have far lower death rates than us. I believe the reason we’ve lost so many is that our country failed to follow the advice of every epidemiology textbook ever published. Because they progress geometrically, epidemics need to be addressed early and aggressively. Late, half hearted efforts such as ours yield predictably poor results. But yes, half fast lockdowns weren’t terribly helpful.

    Although vaccine mandates weren’t very effective (because they were never enforced), vaccines are in reducing deaths. I hope you’re willing to at least accept that. As for people dying of COVID or from some coexisting disease, you have to be more specific. Most older people in this country have one or more contributors to their deaths, so if you think all people who died with symptoms of COVID and a positive test and had a preexisting condition should not be counted as a COVID death, then by the same logic, you’re saying that anyone over the age of 65 dying under the same circumstances should be counted as dying of old age. That would be ridiculous.

    The most accurate way to decide the death rate of COVID comes from excess deaths. Total deaths are reasonably consistent from year to year, but if an epidemic comes along and truly kills lots of people, then almost inevitably, it will show up in excess bodies. Those cannot be easily hidden as judgement calls on causes of death can. As it turns out, the Economist has been tracking COVID deaths both ways throughout the entire pandemic, and concludes that deaths ascribed directly to COVID are generally less than the number of excess deaths, indicating a probable UNDERcount. So that is my evidence that COVID is not being overcounted as a cause of death. Got anything other than political commentary suggesting otherwise?

    I agree that we’ve been far too quick to shut down schools, at least in Illinois. In many of the countries that kicked our butt, the children stayed in school by and large – with masks among other measures.

    As for masks, I am astounded that we have accepted masks for decades as being effective for surgeons, to the point that performing major surgery without one is malpractice, but we are ready to throw it all out the window when it is politically inconvenient. If a mask works for a surgeon, it works for you and I.

  24. Rincon says:

    Seeing no significant evidence presented here for the election being thrown in some way, I conclude that the accusations by Trump and his Republican lap dogs are indeed, as the mainstream media claims, a Big Lie. Great claims require great evidence, and the Republicans are a few degrees of magnitude short on this.

  25. Athos says:

    Rin, if my doctor has a virus, he’s not going to slap on a surgical mask and operate on anyone, cause the mask surgeons wear won’t stop (or contain) a virus. Can we agree on that? There are more effective ways of preventing transmission of a virus, if need be (hazmat suit comes to mind) but that hasn’t been what people have been wearing for the last 2 years, right?

    If we were to look at other countries (how about Sweden for starts?) we will discover different measures taken to fight this Wuhan flu, but why not stay closer to home and compare our very own states? I don’t see any significant difference between the free states and the lock down states that positively justify the draconian lock down measures, do you? And almost to a state, the difference between free and lock down was Republican vs Democrat run governments. And in my own state, (Nevada) we have still not reached the metrics our illustrious fat tin pot dictator (Governor Lickasack) set for us to safely stop wearing masks indoors. I wonder why that is, Rin? Why can’t these politicians simply admit they made a mistake and stopped the mandates?

    But their greatest sin is the treatment of our children. There was NO medical reason to keep schools closed for the 2020-21 school year, but they did, didn’t they? Of course private schools (where our politician’s kids go) were open the whole time, right? The only good to come of this is Moms starting noticing just what was being taught to our children, and they weren’t too happy about it, were they? (How ya doing Governor Youngkin?)

    I agree with you that the only thing that has really worked in this whole sordid affair is Trump’s vaccines. Once again, all the people that said “get the shot and you can’t get Covid or spread Chinese Flu” owe us a big fat apology, don’t they? But for some reason they just can’t admit they’re wrong. Some great leaders we got there, don’t we?

    AS to the election. What I find so hard to accept is that 10 million more people voted for Trump in 2020 (vs 2016) he won 18 out of 19 bell weather counties plus OHIO and still lost by 8 million votes.
    It is extremely hard for me to believe that Brandon got 15 million more votes than Obama ’08 and 22 million Obama ’12!! Especially now that derelict doddering corrupt simpleton has an approval rating under 40% (good for you all you die hard leftists!)

    According to the CDC, 572,000 more deaths in 2020 than in 2019. Approx 385,000 deaths from Wuhan Flu in 2020 and 386,000 in 2021. Time will tell what significance the breakdown of the numbers have in pinpointing how botched this whole pandemic was handled. Maybe we’ll be able to revisit this discussion at that time, eh?

  26. NYPete says:

    Insanity. This guy thinks that masks don’t slow transmission of airborne
    pathogens.

  27. Athos says:

    Who was talking about slowing “transmission of airborne pathogens”, petey? I’m talking about the effectiveness of wearing a cloth mask to prevent or contain the Wuhan flu. What I pointed out is the negligent differences in states that mandate mask wearing indoors and states that don’t.

    Are you refuting what I pointed out? Has shutting down economies in Dem run states kept Covid cases significantly lower than states that didn’t shut down and destroy their small businesses?

  28. NYPete says:

    Yes it has.

  29. NYPete says:

    For example, Florida has a Covid death rate 60% higher than California.
    And in 2021 California’s economy grew faster than Florida’s.

  30. Rincon says:

    I’m afraid common sense is trumped by science in the case of masks. As a doctor (of the veterinary persuasion), I was educated to believe that face masks are fairly effective at stopping viruses, even when surgeons are busy talking only a foot or two from a patient’s abdomen. This is for two primary reasons: 1) A very small number of viral particles is insufficient to cause infection in most cases. This is because innate immunity in most people automatically eliminates a small number of almost any organism. Infection only occurs when innate immunity is overwhelmed. This is why respiratory exposure to a variety of molds, for example, usually doesn’t cause infection, even though those same molds are pathogenic if inhaled in large amounts. 2) Viral particles are always encapsulated in a saliva droplet (in the case of COVID anyway), and those droplets are usually much, much larger than the viral particles themselves. The largest droplets carry the most viral particles and those, which are most likely to overwhelm innate immunity, are the easiest for a mask to stop. A third reason does not apply to our discussion: Most human viruses multiply much more slowly at body temperature than they do in a cooler environment, so surgical incisions provide a poor environment for infection.. This is why they so often infect the respiratory system, which has surfaces cooler than body temperature.

  31. Rincon says:

    Really?? Other countries have a performance far better than ours, but all you can do is compare us to each other? If I am unsuccessful at something, I try to learn from those who are more successful than I, not from those that have failed as well. Essentially every state did worse than most of these other countries, so the reason for performance differences are likely to be found by examining the similarities of most of our states and the differences in the more successful societies.
    I believe the likely reason that other countries have been more successful than us lies in differences in culture. For example, we’ve all seen Asian people wearing masks in crowds long before COVID. This was done to protect others when the mask wearer had an upper respiratory virus. We never did that here. Because of their attitude of helping others, which is far removed from ours, essentially every country more successful than us had universal mask wearing as soon as it was clear that a viral threat was looming in China. This did not occur in our country. We began our mask mandate here about two months after the first domestic cases were found. Those in other countries likely socially distanced more than we. After all, we had half of our population dismissing COVID as Trump clearly did:

    “Many people every year, sometimes over 100,000, and despite the Vaccine, die from the Flu. Are we going to close down our Country? No, we have learned to live with it, just like we are learning to live with Covid, in most populations far less lethal!!!” — tweet Tuesday.”
    https://apnews.com/article/virus-outbreak-donald-trump-ap-fact-check-anthony-fauci-flu-fe474f0c15f76adf324791a2cfc1e2bb

    Although I live in a blue state, my local area is deep red. The majority of my friends ignored COVID protocols, and many bars and restaurants were open when they were supposed to be closed in our so called lockdown. To my knowledge, no one even paid a ten dollar fine. We never had a real lockdown in Illinois. Half fast measures do not work in epidemics.

    I think we may be in closer agreement in some areas now than we have been previously. So far as I’m concerned, as soon as there were more vaccines available than people who wanted them, it was time to open up. The only caveat would have been that, if hospitals became overwhelmed, then the unvaccinated should have been lowest on the triage list. I also agree with you that at least in Illinois, they closed the schools far more than what would have been wise.

    As for red and blue states being indistinguishable in their rates of COVID deaths, I think we’re looking at different information. Keeping in mind that red states have an inherent advantage due to much lower population density, let’s look at all states with a total COVID death rate of >300 per 100,000: Florida, New York, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Georgia, Michigan, New Jersey, Arizona, Tennessee, Massachusetts, Indiana, Missouri, Alabama, South Carolina, Louisiana, Oklahoma, Kentucky, Mississippi, Arkansas, and yes, Nevada, New Mexico, West Virginia, Rhode Island, South Dakota. Only New York, Massachusetts and New Jersey are decidedly, blue, but all three were hammered in the beginning before control measures were instituted, so even they, with their high population density, are poor evidence of failed measures.
    https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/coronavirus-deaths-united-states-each-day-2020-n1177936 (click on “more” at the end, if needed)

    I’m not sure why Biden’s victory should have been considered so unlikely. Seems to me that the preelection polls showed a likely victory for Biden. Where was the surprise? Either way, your claim cannot be considered substantial evidence. So why did so many more people vote in 2020 than 2016? For the most common reason: Both candidates were hated by many. They voted not so much for their candidate, but to prevent the other candidate from winning. A perfectly reasonable explanation.

  32. Athos says:

    1st up, petey. California has 103 deaths per 100,000 (covid) and Florida 123.3/100,000. That looks like 16.5% higher in my math books (not 60) but maybe you just mistyped it? AS to economically, Forbes has California ranked 7 in econ growth for 2021, with Florida at #10. I’m looking at 4 states that touch each other (Arizona, NMexico, Colorado and Utah) and throw Nevada in (my state) and the differences were once again, negligible, lock downs, and mask mandates taken into consideration.

    The difference is whether or not our elected officials (in this Republic) can treat her citizens without taking away their inalienable rights (which have clearly been violated all in the name of “safety”) the lock down states being the worst offenders.

    “Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.” Benjamin Franklin Does this ring a bell?

  33. Athos says:

    Rinny, just to be clear, you are not saying that a surgeon, suffering covid, could safely operate on a patient if he’s wearing his cloth mask, are you? Nor are you saying that children forced to wear masks in school haven’t suffered harm? Possibly more harm than Covid 19 inflicts? Also, do you recognize any debilitating harm to healthy people wearing masks, long term?

    Reading what you wrote about China is puzzling to me. And here I thought people in China wore masks because the pollution was so bad they couldn’t stand it. (Just for point of order, in comparing us to those lovely people that unleashed this virus on the world, do you really believe China suffered only 5,727 total Covid deaths?)

    So I’m glad to hear that there are pockets of sanity left in the great state of Illinois. I did notice that you didn’t bring up Sweden for comparisons and I know you’re enamored with all countries NOT USA (or at least that’s how you come off to me). And I am curious how you would rate the job being done by your champion, Joe Biden. Hmm?

    Let me close with this: I love America and am proud to be an American. I’m from a generation that learned all about the good and the bad that made up the United States of America. We are the greatest country in the world and there is no better place to grow up and navigate our way in life than America (USA – not to sure what’s going on in Canada) and certainly the values of the Right are far superior to the values of the Left. We are a Christian based culture in a Christian based country, and for that, I’m eternally grateful to have been born in this great nation. I’m not sure why you, petey and the Left are so quick to tear down what great men have handed us, or even where you look for that “perfect society”. You can’t legislate suffering, disparity or evil away from human society. And those that genuinely think they can are suffering from egotism run rampant.

  34. NYPete says:

    Many ways to look at statistics, but as of 21 February, California had suffered 213 Covid-related deaths per 100,000, and Florida 321. That is an awfully big % difference. A lot of dead Americans. But, Freedom!
    Well, at least, according to your own sources, Florida compensated for all those Covid deaths by growing so much faster economically than Califo …. oh, wait, never mind.

  35. Athos says:

    Right back at ya, petey. https://datavisualizations.heritage.org/public-health/covid-19-death-rates-by-state/

    See how this game is played? who’s got the real figures? The CDC! But they won’t release them!

    I wonder why?

    The left isn’t rational. Mask wearing has never been a sane and rational way to combat the Wuhan Flu.

    Case in point-

    1) So you wear your mask into the restaurant of your choice, are seated at your table and immediately you’re in a Covid Free Zone cause “off comes the mask”. Not rational.

    2) you board an airplane that has a closed system and wear a mask over your nose UNTIL you remove it to drink a soda and/or eat some peanuts. And voila! you’re in a Covid free bubble! Not rational.

    3) The sneeze (already described in another post) human nature

    4) You’re watching the Rams beat the 49ers in the new LA stadium that has a strict mask mandate and see the Governor of CA and the Mayor of LA both WITHOUT masks (and it’s THEIR mandate!) Logically, if the Gov and Mayor truly believed that cloth masks made a difference (along with all the other hypocrites that were busted in public settings not wearing their face diapers INCLUDING our very own POS Gov Lickasack) there would be NO pictures of them sans masks in bars, games, restaurants or airports (Diane Feinstein in SFO) or listening to bands….

    5)After being humiliated (is that possible with you leftists?) the same mayor and governor and 70,000 other fans are busted not wearing masks for the Super Bowl game just 2 weeks after Rams/49ers. Totally not rational. Even Fauci was busted for no mask wearing at a baseball game, wasn’t he?

    Maybe in a perfect world mask wearing would stop the spread of a virus. Let me know when you find one, fellas.

  36. NYPete says:

    Athos:
    1. If you look closely, you will see that the source you linked to — the Heritage Foundation — shows the Covid death rates as of February 2, 2021. That is more than a year ago. So your data is out of date. Take a look at the link I provided for Covid death rates by state as of February of 2022.
    2. Even as of 2/21 Florida and Texas had a higher Covid death rate than California. So I don’t know what your point is.
    3. Mask requirements change as the prevalence of the virus changes. public officials and public health experts try to balance health needs against other considerations -like keeping the economy going. When there were no vaccines and the pandemic was burning through all the human wood most shops and restaurants had to be closed. It was too dangerous. Now that most people are vaccinated (at least in most areas,) people where I live can go into restaurants if they are vaccinated. I keep my mask on until my food arrives and I put it on again when I finish my meal. It reduces the amount of virus that potentially enters and leaves my airways. Seems like common sense.
    4. As for stadiums, every person attending the Super Bowl had to be vaccinated. And, they were outdoors. I would have worn a mask except for eating and drinking, but one must make allowance for human nature, right?

  37. Rincon says:

    To decide whether a cloth mask is “safe” in surgery actually requires measuring the results of surgeries on thousands of patients, but you seem to be missing the idea that the pore size in a mask does not have to be less than the size of the organism. To illustrate, I believe we can all agree that surgical masks offer very significant protection from the huge numbers of normal bacteria in the surgeon’s mouth. But if we only measure filtration of organisms, we find that the protection provided by surgical masks from bacterial infection is absolutely terrible, i.e., only 86-92% of bacteria are filtered by surgical masks according to this study. https://textiles.ncsu.edu/tatm/wp-content/uploads/sites/4/2017/11/leonas_full_document.pdf (See table 4) Since there are millions of bacteria in the surgeon’s mouth, this finding, in the absence of other information, implies that every single surgical patient should become infected yet we know from real world testing that surgical masks are extremely effective at preventing infection.

    Whether I believe China’s figure of 5 thousand something is irrelevant. The huge majority of educated observers of China agree that their lockdown was severe, but also very successful, as evidenced by the rapid. resumption of normal Chinese life. We don’t need to take their word for it. There are many ways of observing this, but one of the simplest is traffic counts measured by satellites.

    I didn’t comment on Sweden because it is unique. There had been no official lockdown, at least in the early days, but their population, unlike ours, mostly followed the advice given by the government.

    “I know you’re enamored with all countries NOT USA (or at least that’s how you come off to me).”
    As in sports, when another team performs better than mine, I don’t waste a lot of effort denying it, but I’m always trying to help my team win, even if it means borrowing strategies from a team that trounced us.

    I believe that you love America, but that is a little hard to reconcile with your acid commentary directed at the 1/3 or so of us that could be termed politically liberal. I love this country as well, but, as with a parent who has a misbehaving child, love does not mean blind acceptance of bad behavior, nor does it require minimizing the successes of others.

    As for Pete and I tearing down what great men have handed us, it seems to me that a President claiming, without significant evidence in three separate elections, that our electoral process is not to be trusted is doing just that, yet you enthusiastically support him and his minions.

  38. Athos says:

    petey. your last statement accurately accesses the entire mask argument. ” but one must make allowance for human nature, right?” That dovetails rather nicely with points 1 thru 5. I’m glad you see the light.

    Rinny, “him and his minions…”? Well, that should certainly persuade me to reduce my “acid commentary directed at the 1/3 or so of us that could be termed politically liberal” Actually, my fight is with the lefties in your party, not the liberals. (although it’s becoming increasingly hard to differentiate, eh?) There is nothing “liberal” about silencing free speech or trying to indoctrinate children with racism a la CRT. Nor is it classical liberalism to want to defend the borders of Ukraine while leaving our very own borders wide open (wanna buy some fentanyl, Bob? or how about a little girl?)

    Once again, I was brought up to love my country, and take pride in the achievements of our great nation. It is physically impossible to watch the news spew their bile and contempt for America, on a nightly basis. And they NEVER apologize for lying. It’s actually hilarious! Trump was a Russian spy, remember?

    When thinking about the accomplishments of Donald Trump, as President, he did a better than average job. The economy was improving all sectors of America (up until China unleashed the Wuhan Flu), there was significant peace in the middle East (he let the military destroy ISIS, and put Iran in its place PLUS the peace treaties with Israel, remember?) the Rocket man was mollified and we were a net exporter of oil. We were even getting the border shut down. All this while the evening News kept shouting about Trump is Hitler!

    Donald Trump basically showed the elites to be “know nothings” and they (and it would appear Rinny and petey) couldn’t stand it. Pride. The tyranny of egoism. And just what was so antagonizing about the phrase “Make America Great Again”?

  39. Rincon says:

    I guess I have to give you your due regarding the lefties. Like you, I also reject their radical stance on a variety of issues, including those you mentioned. I suspect you also have some objections to the far right wing. At least I hope so.

    I can’t recall the mainstream media claiming that Trump was a spy for Russia – maybe you can find an old article proving your point, – but I’m right there with those that believe he’s been much too soft on a dictatorship that’s every bit as threatening as China, except that its economy is too small to give it as much economic clout as China. I won’t rehash all of the propaganda gifts, as well as some classified information he gave to Russia, but his last words about Putin and Ukraine, along with those of his favorite toady, Tucker Carlson certainly should give any American pause.

    Ironic that you think the mainstream media lies (any evidence you would like to provide?), but continue to back the greatest liar ever to work in the Oval Office, who may not have apologized for even a single lie.

    Although Trump did a few things right – his aggressiveness with China comes to mind, – he also botched much of his job. First though, the notion that the President or even his party should be blamed or credited for the state of the economy is very simplistic and inaccurate as well. If we do that, then nearly every world leader at the time, including the Republicans would have to be blamed for the 2008 recession. And, if we decide that every leader who enjoys a good economy is doing a good job, then first on the list would be Xi Jinping. Personally, I put him far below any of our Presidents, living or dead. Also, if we use that logic, since the recent economic good times have been global, there are a whole slew of tyrants who could take credit for the economy in their country. Additionally, my father’s saying sticks in my head: “Spend, spend, spend. Elect, elect, elect.” The Trump Administration and the Republican Congress ran deficits greater than several of Obama’s. They kept goosing an economy that was already running just fine. Regrettably, the Democrats and Biden have done just as badly, although at least they didn’t grant big time tax savings to the rich.

    Three things I cannot easily forgive Trump for: 1) Failing to address the pandemic properly in the beginning, leading us to suffer one of the highest death rates of advanced nations. And no, his repeated claims that COVID was no big deal were not worthwhile. 2) Claiming significant election fraud in our 3 past elections without showing any reasonable evidence for his claims. In this case, he was better for China and Russia than any spy could have been in his undermining of our democratic foundations. 3) Waiting for over two hours to address in any way, the so called insurrection, when a word from him could have stopped it in its tracks.

    Rocket man continues his tests and buildup. So far as I can tell, Trump had no effect, but it was great theater for his followers, as if he was accomplishing something. I see you’re also giving him credit for fracking. Sounds a lot like Gore and the Internet. As for Iran being put in its place, they continued their nuclear program and a production of a nuclear weapon is inevitable within a few months, if it hasn’t been produced already. I have to admit though, Biden is a fool to consider talks which are doomed to failure at this point. The moderates in Iran lost what little power they had when it became clear that the U.S. could reverse its stance with every election. You call that progress? Our nation is more divided than I can ever remember and has only gotten worse between 2017 and 2021. Shall we credit Trump with that also?

    OK, now that I think about it, although we agree on a few things, I guess there’s still plenty for us to debate for a while 🙂

  40. Athos says:

    Rin, the problem I see with Liberals is that they vote with the crazed lefties (which is now the main stream Democrat party) and the Left has a crappy value system that just doesn’t work. Plus I have a hard time believing you can’t recall Adam Schiff’s countless (and baseless) claims of Trump-Russia collusion, among other experts of MSNBC and CNN rehashing Trump/Russia (Pappa Putin’s Puppet) collusion?? Did you forget about Bob Mueller’s investigation?

    I’m afraid you so much want to believe that Trump is evil that no matter what evidence you’re presented, you can only process it one way. Joe Brandon added 6 million jobs in 2021, which is great BUT we only need 5 million more jobs to bring us back to Feb 2020 figures. Trump did build a great economy primarily by removing the heavy hand of government. (I believe he did remove as many regulations as he humanly could, given the nature of the swamp). And you totally whiffed on his comment about Putin being “pretty smart” because Putin IS politically savvy enough to know Joe Biden is a senile buffoon! And what’s with that tired old canard about “big time tax savings for the rich”? Don’t you remember how blue states howled about not getting their property taxes deducted over $10,000? And now that Brandon’s in charge I’m paying more in taxes (and I’m anything other than rich, in any dynamic!)

    And Trump didn’t handle the pandemic to your liking, eh? I seem to remember Pelousy telling people to party down for Chinese New Year in 2020 and screaming at Trump for his travel bans in late January 2020. Did that slip your mind? Even St. Fauci told folks not to wear a mask at first (he was correct then!) and Trump didn’t go against the advice of the Doctors (he should have trusted his gut) and what I can’t believe from you, Rin, is that this is all being born out NOW for God’s sake!

    But it doesn’t fit your narrative so it can’t be so, huh?

    We may never get to the truth about Jan. 6 BECAUSE they won’t release the thousand of hours of video recordings about that day or just exactly who was ramrodding this (who is Ray Epps, Rin?) And as a liberal, are you OK with people being held in jail w/o bail for over a year now?

    We are in this predicament with Ukraine/Russia because our leaders are chasing fantasy and come off as untethered to reality. If you need convincing, check out John “I served in Vietnam” Kerry and his priorities as people are dying in Ukraine. And Brandon has still not stopped Russia from selling us oil EVEN TODAY?! The left has a lunatic value system that the real world can not (and will not) take seriously. While we’ve been figuring out how boys can use the girls bathroom (and set records in women’s sports) Russia has been trying to figure out how to be feared and respected by the rest of the world (with China looking on intensely) and both want to replace America as the World leader (while our American Elites want to spit on America as “systemically racist”)

    Elections have consequences. And all that voted for Brandon are guilty. As to what price we may pay? My brother told me today thank God our Dad (WW 2 veteran) isn’t around to see this. But this is clearly being done on our watch.

  41. Rincon says:

    I agree that the radical left has far too much influence on the Democratic Party. I also believe the radical right has too much say in the Republican Party.

    Of course there was collusion. It just could not be proved beyond a reasonable doubt. I believe OJ killed Nicole, but I would not have convicted him by our rules. They had the same problem with the Mafia for decades. Even Al Capone was only convicted for taxes. It’s the nature of our justice system. Lots of guilty people go free for lack of solid enough evidence. But you said he was called a spy. That is not the same.

    So how specifically, did Trump remove the heavy hand of government?
    Government spending under him was up 19% from 2016 to 2019. Inflation was only about 6%.
    https://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/statistics/data/federal-budget-receipts-and-outlays

    It saddens me that you think it’s perfectly reasonable for a former President undercut to our own Commander in Chief by supporting the Russian warmonger, handing him compliments while his supporters call our present President names such as buffoon or Brandon. We used to criticize our leaders, but didn’t actively try to weaken them internationally.

    Pelosi’s criticism of Trump’s banning of Chinese nationals from flying in was that he let 40,000 Americans return from China without any protective measures as if Americans couldn’t possibly harbor the virus. It was a gross violation of epidemiological procedures. Strictly a PR move with no medical merit. If you’re going to prevent people returning from China from bringing in a virus, their nationality is medically irrelevant.

    Fauci was Trump’s Chief Medical Advisor. I think he said what he was told to say. That’s how he stayed on with 7 or 8 Presidents. They all like a yes man.

    The video tapes haven’t been released? Show me.

    Trump degraded NATO in several ways, so why don’t you think a NATO without much US support anymore had no influence on Putin’s actions? Certainly it had a greater effect on this than girls and boys bathrooms.

  42. Athos says:

    Wow. How’s that cool aid taste, Rin? Not only can WE see Biden’s ineptitude whenever he gets in front of a camera, so can the rest of the world. Please tell me that you don’t cringe when Brandon stumbles over words or just gets lost in the middle of a sentence…. saying “never mind”???

    Pelosi told people to come on down to Chinatown and PARTY ON, DUDE! And what did you expect Trump to do with those 40,000 Americans returning from China? Put ’em in Obama’s border cages? Strange how China banned all inter country travel, but allowed the Wuhan folks to leave the country?

    I’m not sure how I can show you video tapes of Jan. 6 if they haven’t been released, Rin. Wonder when Nancy and the Cap police gonna let us see the goods? And as to Trump degrading NATO, I seem to remember him getting the other NATO countries to pony up their fare share of the COST of NATO. But that’s a downgrade to you, huh? Must be a Chicago thing.

    As I said above, we are governed by CLOWNS that Xi and Putin can’t take seriously. Notice that neither Russia or China are trying to destroy their economies over some computer model that predicts disaster 100 years from now (and has been incorrect for the past 50 years). They know we aren’t serious BECAUSE we don’t consider nuclear power. Just wind and solar that are insufficient to power our world (for at least the foreseeable future). Who do we get those minerals and solar panels from anyway?

    Nor are they quaking in their boots about our politically correct, woke General Millie or SecDef Lloyd “two masks and I still got covid” Austin. Maybe we should unleash Admiral Racheal Richard Levine and his pink fleet to set things right.

    We’ve forgotten our core values that founded this country (making Her great) and thought that everyone had the same “just give us some money” values. Putin and Xi want a global community where THEY call the shots, not the USA. I pray that doesn’t happen, don’t you, Rin?

  43. Rincon says:

    You never answered my question: How specifically, did Trump remove the heavy hand of government? I agree that Biden leaves much to be desired, but you appear unable to criticize Trump. Maybe I’m putting a lack of words in your mouth though, so I should ask, do any criticisms come to mind?

    If Pelosi actually did what you say (if, since you don’t provide a shred of evidence), I say she also violated all epidemiological common sense, but it has nothing to do with Trump’s poor handling of the situation. What to do with 40,000 people? How about what Australia and Taiwan did – put then in hotels, isolated and under guard for two weeks. It’s called quarantine, and is considered medically necessary in the early stages of any epidemic. If you consider that to be an impingement on our freedom, then I suggest we allow murderers out of prison, since almost all would kill far fewer people than many of the infected Americans from Wuhan did.

    Video tapes: I’m asking for evidence that the tapes have been covered up, not the tapes themselves.

    Making an issue out of the failure of other NATO nations to pay their fair share was commendable, and long overdue. I also have to back off from my original assertion. Although Trump repeatedly called NATO obsolete, he seems to have always tied it into their failure to address terrorism. He should get the benefit of the doubt on this one. This is why I like to do these discussions. I learn. Thanks for your role in that.

    You say the computer models for global warming have been wrong. Do you have evidence for that? The IPCC models predicted an increase in global temperature of 0.3 to1.0 degrees Celcius by 2025, depending upon how much greenhouse gas emissions changed during that time. https://www.ipcc.ch/site/assets/uploads/2018/05/ipcc_90_92_assessments_far_overview.pdf
    Since the temperature has risen about 0.5 degrees Celcius by 2022, and the rate of emissions increase slowed during that time, I think they were right on target.
    https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/world-of-change/global-temperatures Look at the graph half way down and then try to tell me with a straight face that the earth isn’t warming significantly. Are you still believing the same people who told us for decades that the earth wasn’t really warming (they said the measurements were wrong). Then, when proven completely wrong, they said the warming was stopping. That too was completely off the mark, and now, after being proven completely wrong twice, they say that although we’re warming a lot, it’s a natural warming, although they don’t have the faintest idea how or why it’s happening. Why would you be willing to bet the farm that they are right after they were wrong twice?

    Although I don’t think China takes global warming seriously enough, the same applies to 50% of our leadership (Republicans). That being said, let’s look at where the rubber meets the road. First, China burns about 28% more coal than we do per capita, although much of the coal they burn is to smelt steel for products that we buy, so who’s ultimately responsible, the guy who burns the coal or the guy who pays to have it burned? Either way, they burn way too much coal. But let’s look at the progress made in switching from coal. China produces 6.2% of its electricity by solar power vs 3.4 for the U.S. They produce 2.4 times as much wind power as us and about 3.5 times as much hydropower as we do. They are also increasing all three faster than us. Neither nation is doing enough, but pointing fingers when we live in a glass house is irrational.

    I think you’re right that we should have been going with nuclear for the last several decades.

  44. Athos says:

    So, how close are we to having all our energy needs met by renewables? Or is the idea to crash our system and bring our energy needs down to what renewables can cover?

    Just trying to live in the REAL world, here…….

  45. Athos says:

    Ok Rin. I’ve got a little free time, let’s go thru your talking points above, shall we?

    1)Trump made a campaign promise to eliminate 2 regulations for every 1 new regulation. Check it out, he actually did a little better than that (but ramped up oil and gas production and corrected some much needed animal protective regs)

    2)Pelousy did encourage Chinatown celebration Feb 2020. https://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2020/02/24/coronavirus-speaker-house-nancy-pelosi-tours-san-franciscos-chinatown/

    As to the lockdowns (or quarantines or 15 days to slow the spread) there is now enough evidence that it was a mistake..we never shut down for Mers or Sars or any other (we had to go back to 1919 to compare what we were doing), and another article to support : https://health.wusf.usf.edu/health-news-florida/2022-02-02/a-johns-hopkins-study-says-ill-founded-lockdowns-did-little-to-limit-covid-deaths

    3)Video surveillance tapes. You’re kidding right? The very fact that 15 months after Jan 6 uprising, we still have no access to 14,000 hours of surveillance video IS the cover up. Is that really too hard to follow, Rin? House Repubs have been clamoring for these tapes for over a year, now. What up, January 6 commission??

    4) This global warming/ cooling climate change grift has been going on now, for 50 years. How many “dire” prediction dates have come and gone in that time, Rin? The UN just issued another “dire” prediction date that will determine whether we can live or die in 2025, right? And over the years the only true outcome is the million$ and billion$ these con artists (yes, I’m talking to you, Algore!) have made at the expense of our security (see Russia invades Ukraine while selling Europe and America oil and gas). Do you really feel an overwhelming need to taken like a rube? Send Thomas some money!! (maybe he can buy the Sun and turn it around!)

    Here’s a short article from Emmy Griffin of the Patriot Post – https://patriotpost.us/articles/87515-climate-change-hysteria-the-un-who-cried-wolf-2022-04-08?mailing_id=6591&utm_medium=email&utm_source=pp.email.6591&utm_campaign=digest&utm_content=body that I think nails it…

    5) China, your last great hope for humanity. Why do you think our manufacturing industry left our country to go to these 3rd world nations? Could it be the do-good environmental wack-a-doodles that influenced our bought and paid for politicians to destroy what America does best? I worked in a factory back in the late 70s, early 80s when we “off shored” our products to save in Union Labor and escape Osha rules and regs). Our virtue signaling has put us in a very weak position when dealing with our enemies (you know, those that want to replace America as the Worlds’ superpower with China/Russia/Iran).

    IF we were a “smart” grown-ups type of nation, we would keep our energy, manufacturing and pharma production here in the states so we wouldn’t have to depend on China. Or Russia. Or Saudi Arabia. And let our entrepreneurs develop the next wave of cheap clean energy (LIKE NUCLEAR) and Make America Great Again! (where have I heard that before?? MAGA)

  46. Athos says:

    Golly, rinny, don’t tell me I got you to agree the green new grifting deal is bunko?

    Maybe there’s hope for you yet!!

  47. Athos says:

    Welcome to the real world……

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