House Democrats have unveiled a $3 trillion coronavirus stimulus package and expect to vote on it by Friday, according to an AP account.
The so-called Heroes Act proposes almost $1 trillion for states, cities and tribal governments, $200 billion in “hazard pay” for essential workers, as well as $1,200 direct cash aid to individuals, up to $6,000 per household. There is also $75 billion more for virus testing.
The plan was unveiled by House Speaker Nancy Pelosi who urged Congress to “go big.”
Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell said the bill is a “big laundry list of pet priorities.”
For perspective, the FY 2020 federal budget calls for $4.7 trillion in spending with revenues of only $3.6 trillion for a deficit of $1.1 trillion this year, according to the CBO. The current debt is $17.8 trillion. This bill would push that over $20 trillion.
The current GDP is just over $20 trillion.
Nancy Pelosi (AP pix)
4TH ST8 
There is no money! Just pieces of paper and paper comes from trees; plastic cards; 0’s and 1’s in computer programs and lots & lots of smoke and mirrors!
Great how the producing states will have to subsidize the fiscally irresponsible ones as the $$ is filtered through DC. The $1,200 “crumbs” as Nancy likes to call it will mollify the masses as the real money is slid to the Blue State budgets…
Unfortunately, our precious governor Sissylack has already spent the money!
I wonder how many million$ go to leftist pork?
Ans. ALL OF IT!
I didn’t realize that this federal money favors states with a big debt. Any more details available?
Let’s see here. It’s irresponsible to increase the debt by $3 trillion when we’re facing a possible economic disaster on the scale of the great depression, but the previous $2.4 trillion in deficits (would have been $3 trillion by this year’s end if the pandemic hadn’t come along) run up by a Republican Congress and President during GOOD TIMES? Nary a complaint. The real problem isn’t the amount we have to spend on the pandemic response, but that we already spent like drunken sailors during good times and kept interest rates ridiculously low, leaving us with little reserve financial strength. I agree though, that $3 trillion on top of the $1.8 trillion already appropriated seems a bit much.
BTW Athos, can you point out any of the “leftist pork?” It’s probably there, as it is with just about all Congressional bills, but somehow I don’t feel any better informed after you’ve railed about something with no supporting evidence.
On April 23 on Facebook I posted a comment on virus bailout: “Another bill for our grandchildren.”
….”run up by a Republican Congress and President during GOOD TIMES? Nary a complaint.”
If memory serves me, this very site had several postings by it’s owner pointing out the flagrant spending overwhelming the revenues spurred by tax cuts that made it cheaper to pay tax here rather than spend money hiding it elsewhere.
Think back Rincon, you might remember.
Wait for it, Rin. The details are to come….. (and you know if its from Nancy Pelousy, it’s LOADED with leftist pet projects)
The money should go any business that had to shut down due to the government quarantine. Start with the small businesses and work your way up. But that’s not how it goes, does it?
I did hear that DC lobbying groups got small businessman loans from this new bill. Course, I could be mistaken.
And just a point of order, Steve, the problem (in my opinion) has never been the taxes taken in, but the endless spending going out. Has there ever been a DC project that ended? (and stopped taking money?? not the same thing!)
Who said “The closest thing to eternal life on earth is a Government Program”?
See that Rincon….Athos says the same thing about spending.
The CBO figure might be a tad off. The deficit for April alone was $737.85 billion.
As I’ve pointed out before, nonMedicare & SS federal spending as a % of GDP is less than it was in 1960, and excise and corporate taxes paid 43% of our budget. That now stands at 14% if memory serves. We didn’t increase spending; we gave ourselves (thru corporations and excise taxes) a huge tax break for decades, and then continue to believe the obviously disproven myth that tax cuts pay for themselves.
If there was an innovative government program that became hugely successful, say the Internet, and the individual who was responsible took $50 billion for himself (with permission),we would call it a massive theft from the taxpayers, yet this is common in private enterprise, and we laud them for their accomplishments. We claim that we need to pay captains of industry massive amounts so that we can secure the best talent, but we pay our government leaders like working stiffs, and then cannot understand why we don’t attract the best.
We cut governmental costs, such as the Pandemic Task Force, and then gripe about how poorly government is run, then we starve them more so that they can do an even worse job – and then blame them and wonder why we can’t attract talent to work in government. Patriotism involves a lot more than waving flags and praising our military. It means putting effort into making our institutions work effectively, not tearing them down and letting them rot.
They rot all on their own. You perfectly encapsulate the divide between conservatives and lefties. With greed, or ambition to better ones life by building a better mousetrap, we can count on industry to excel. If they fail, they fall (unless they can corrupt a government official to help them succeed – a la crony capitalism). That’s why most people get up in the morning and go to work.
In government, where it is next to impossible to get fired (only promoted for incompetence!) there is NO incentive to do anymore than the absolute minimum with as close to zero risk as possible. Hence, Fauci can throw cold water on any type of opening (and never admit that this lockdown has overstayed it’s effectiveness) because he pays no price. And the chance to exercise power over the peons is in full bloom across the nation from Maine ( Democrat Gov) to California (any twosome Newsom-democrat). And frankly, it’s sickening to watch.
And please don’t forget the single biggest difference, Rin….. Government creates $ZERO wealth. It can ONLY take what the GOVERNED earn (by force, I might add). Our style of government was designed to SERVE the people. Tyrants are served BY the people (’cause ya know, people are just too stupid to do what’s right!)
Last and most important, Utopia on Earth IS NOT REAL OR ATTAINABLE, Rin. At least not until Jesus Christ returns (reference the book of Revelations, New Testament)
Hope that clears it up for you.
Athos….Hawaii.
No tourists until vaccine….or gov coffers empty. Whichever comes first.
One guess which comes first.
https://www.staradvertiser.com/2020/04/30/hawaii-news/hawaii-moving-forward-with-a-cautious-phased-reopening-effort/
The ninth island declared “economic emergency”, suddenly casinos have plans to open up, some before Memorial Day.
Totally coincidence! Really! it’s just blind luck that happened this way!
suckers screwed every second these days
I love my uneducated voters!
And of course, I can’t believe I have to say this but, please don’t drink bleach.
If the “Heroes Act” passes with state and local bailout money, the clamp downs come back fast.
Bet me?
Honolulu just clamped down tight till 30, June.
The island paradise is killing itself softly.
But they love their educated voters.
You couldn’t be more wrong, Athos:
“In government, where it is next to impossible to get fired” Actually, in government, management frequently gets fired after every election. Check out Trump’s Administration if you want to see very short job cycles. He fires them left and right. As a matter of fact, the frequent firings are one of government’s weaknesses. There’s little continuity, and appointees are motivated to achieve only short term goals. Firing lower level employees in private enterprise is also “impossible”
in many cases, especially in large companies, mostly due to a lack of legal reform by both parties.
“Government creates $ZERO wealth”. So you’re saying roads, railroads. bridges, airports, the Internet, GPS, and government research such as that which laid the groundwork for transistors and microcircuitry etc., don’t create wealth. Might want to rethink that. If nothing else, government creates wealth by regulating commerce fairly enough that people in business can largely trust each other. If you look at other countries and history, this is no mean feat.
I do agree that utopia isn’t attainable on Earth, but what does that prove?
The money to build roads comes from the people not the government. I believe I give you an argument with Trump’s appointments. Seems there’s way too many Obama holdovers, I think they call themselves “the resistance”
And right now the government is destroying American private business except for possibly Georgia and Florida. Funny how the coronavirus attacks people in Democrat governor states.
Looks like my summer trip to Hawaii is canceled too! More democrat tomfoolery.
To paraphrase your words, the money to pay for building your car came from you, not the automakers. A well run government provides a huge advantage over little or no government. Only a fool would say that reliable infrastructure isn’t important for advancing a society’s standard of living. I certainly hope you’re not that fool.
Trump’s turnover is already greater than any President since at least Carter (no figures easily found before then), even though his 4th year isn’t over yet. That being said, it’s not massively worse than some others. My point though, is that people in government management jobs get fired frequently – probably too frequently. His turnover has been over 80%, and that appears to be counting only those he appointed himself. I don’t believe they count the normal elimination of personnel when a new administration takes over.
https://www.brookings.edu/research/why-is-trumps-staff-turnover-higher-than-the-5-most-recent-presidents/
“To paraphrase your words, the money to pay for building your car came from you, not the automakers.” Yes!! You should have stopped right there because you had it correct! The reason anyone would build a car is to SELL that car to a consumer! If you don’t make a profit, you don’t build it (except for the government, and we definitely need more oversight and sunset spending bills) It’s the same reason you went to school and paid money to become a veterinarian…..so people would pay you to fix their pets (and you could earn a living)
It’s a shame we don’t completely change out all 2+million federal employees. But that would not be practical.
Pity.
Anonymous was me. Oops
Actually, money is issued by the Congress. Only Congress has the power to issue money. States do not have this power, only the Congress can issue or remove dollars from the economy.
The Fed can loan money, it is the lender of last resort. It does not issue money, it can make loaning money very easy.
But the issuer of the money supply can never run out of money, because they issue the money. This is why it is impossible for federal government checks to bounce, ever.
The reality is money does not come from the people, it does come from the government.
On the other hand, VALUE…that does come from the people. And value is what keeps issued money worth what it is.
Truth is, the Congress can issue all the dollars needed to keep everything afloat all the way through this pandemic induced economic downturn. Normal economic recessions, depressions or downturns all have predictability in recovery. We know all of those will come back and recover, moreover we can see the trends and make reasonable predictions from those in a timeline of an ECONOMICALLY induced downturn.
A pandemic, a viral induced medical emergency has zero predictability, there is no way of detecting any trend line for recovery. There is no predicting an end to any pandemic. these end only when they end by vaccines or by burning themselves out by killing off all those easily infected leaving the rest with “herd immunity”. This is nature and nature is cruel. Vaccines circumvent this. Vaccines are good. Antivaxers are….another thing entirely.
Back to the point.
In this case it the very purpose of Congress to keep the nation afloat by issuing all the dollars needed to walk every corner, every business, every state, local and county government through the to the end of the pandemic so restarting the economy can take place as fast as possible. This can only be accomplished by getting dollars to those directly effected by the necessary actions taken to slow the viral spread. And it is in the bedrock of our government to “make whole” all those who have their livelihoods taken by government action. Designations of so called “non essential” is the very definition of government action.
Congress truly does have unlimited dollars, it issues all of them. It is impossible for Treasury checks to bounce because the Congress fills the treasury. Under normal life, money circulates. This is not normal life. Now, money must be issued into the hands of those whose lives are halted, by government order, to keep that part of the populace afloat until the pandemic is over.
Then, and only then, can Congress remove added money from the supply to normalize circulation again. And that is also the direct responsibility of Congress.
Government checks DO NOT BOUNCE, ever.
http://moslereconomics.com/mandatory-readings/innocent-frauds/
Warren Mosler knows his stuff.
I don’t necessarily lump you in with all other Conservatives, Athos, but there is something about many Conservatives that galls me. They consider those who vilify the police and/or military to be despicable, but are quite happy to vilify most other government employees themselves. If we fail to respect our police or military, few will want to join, and we will end up scraping the bottom of the barrel. One thing I agree with Fox News about is that most police and members of our armed forces are working hard for the benefit of our country. There will always be some bad apples, but it is they that should be weeded out. The rest deserve our respect and gratitude. Sad that they wouldn’t consider treating other government employees similarly.
Well stated, Steve. The problem is getting money to the “non essentials” and the non essential businesses that have now shut their doors for good, due to the governor or President forcing them to close (for whatever reason). I have a sick feeling that all that government printed money isn’t going to get to all that deserve it (and conversely, a lot of that government printed money is going to line the pockets of the politically connected. But that’s not a new phenomenon, is it?) I suppose one could sue claiming eminent domain, but then the lawyer gets that money (and Keller kind of killed that concept of the law, anyway).
Fun fact: Pictured on the Zimbabwe 100 Trillion dollar bill are a pile of rocks. They can print their own money, too!
Rin, I can appreciate what you say. As a conservative, the rule of law is very important to me. The rule of political correctness, not so much. And it is impossible for me to deny the very nature of man, to be corrupted by avarice and greed. Very few men have the inner compass, or God like nature, to resist the pull of power. And those men are considered great men, to be emulated by some; and considered to be too stupid to seize a good thing and rejected, by others.
Consider the actions of the Mayor of LA. Or the governors of Mich, Illinois, and Maine. Even our own stupid incompetent gov. Sissylack has no cloths struts around like god. Pathetic. That’s why our founding fathers stressed checks and balances. And limits on what our government can do.
And shame on us for allowing them to usurp our personal freedom. No matter what the reason.
Of all the states in the Union, Nevada’s governor holds the most power.
This state is most similar a constitutional republic than any of the rest.
Like it or not, Sisolak is well within his constitutional authority to make the decisions he has. Even if the legislature was majority opposition party, it would not likely have the option to seat itself because the amendment passed a few cycles back places a very high bar on that.
Nevada is one of the very few remaining constitutional republics left in the USA.
And we have an idiot for a Governor. (and a leftist idiot, to boot!)