Many people are aghast that Las Vegas Mayor Carolyn Goodman has had the audacity to suggest the coronavirus shutdown might not have been necessary in the first place and reopening should begin soon — even suggesting Las Vegas could be used as a placebo or control group to compare the impact of reopening to staying shutdown.
People have called on her to resign, have called her suggestions reckless and deranged. A television interviewer called her ignorant for saying Las Vegas is not like China.
But what I found disturbing was a quote in the morning paper from Gov. Steve Sisolak, “I mean, there is no way I would even permit the discussion about using the city of Las Vegas as a control group in dealing with the spread of the coronavirus. That’s beyond the pale. I can’t even imagine someone even contemplating that.”
He would not “permit” the discussion? He would silence debate? You know what they call people who do that.
He further declared, “You cannot allow our citizens, our folks, to be used as a ‘control group’ in this unscientific experiment that she’s talking about, relating to the spread of the virus. That’s just simply not allowable.”
Unscientific? What are control groups? They are the ones who do not get the experimental treatment, but perhaps a placebo, so the effectiveness of the experimental treatment can to compared to doing nothing.
Goodman may well be wrong. Granted, she is probably wrong.
But somewhere someone needs to contemplate a gradual return to normalcy. Whether some businesses reopen tomorrow or six months from now there is likely to be an uptick in contagion. At which the doomsayers will declare, “I told you so.”
In a separate story in the morning paper Sisolak was quoted as being dismissive of suggestions by the Elko mayor in a letter in the Elko Daily Free Press that said the sparsely populated and less affected rural counties should not be treated in the same manner as the more densely populated areas.
Elko Mayor Reece Keener wrote in an open letter to Sisolak:
It is a given that we will see outbreaks and “hotspots” into the foreseeable future. This virus is tenacious and will continue to be a threat until we have either better medicines or a vaccine. However, we cannot and must not continue to put our lives and civil liberties on hold until it is deemed “safe” to resume a semi-normal state. If, and when we experience an increase in new infection rates, we will be prepared to dial things back accordingly in a measured response.
We accept the responsibility, and with this, we need the flexibility to have local decision-making authority for our reopening timetables and planning. Please consider that a “one size fits all” approach does not work for a largely rural and sparsely populated Nevada. A statewide extension mandate will further deepen the economic damage that we have already incurred, plus it will be a huge psychological blow to the citizens that have diligently complied with the orders. Crucially, a statewide extension will invite civil disobedience and unrest. As mayor, I do not want to place our police officers in the untenable position of having to enforce state directives that are unpopular and impractical for our community.
Keener also pointed out, “Despite the best of intentions, the models and projections have been grossly overstated.”
But the governor reacted by saying, “If you open up Elko County, and you don’t open up Clark County or Washoe County, and in Elko all the stores are open, the restaurants and bars, all the entertainment’s open, well, then the people from the other counties are going to go to Elko County because they’re tired of being locked up in their houses, and they want to experience that, and they’re all going to go back to their counties and then the virus is going to continue to spread. So that wouldn’t work.”
He added, “It’s not just that we don’t want them to open. It’s just that it has to be done in a way that it doesn’t negatively impact that county or the surrounding counties.”
And what way is that, pray tell, and when, if ever?
Las Vegas can’t reopen, Elko can’t reopen. Who can? When? How long must everyone cower in the corner?
Who will “permit” at least a discussion?
About those models and projections … New data data shows about 13.9 percent of the population of New York state and 21 percent of New York City residents have at some point been infected with the coronavirus. This indicates the COVID-19 death rate in New York is about 0.5 percent. https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/494324-27m-new-yorkers-have-had-coronavirus-preliminary-data-shows
Remember when the broadcasters on Fox were repeating Trumps recommendations that everyone ought to try chloroquine and how it was a violation of all our natural rights that the government that trump controls wouldn’t approve it for everyone to use?
Now…not a peep.
I’m wondering if anyone has any insight as to why that might be?
Which provides a nice segue into the discussion about “opening up” Las Veqas or any other city in Las Vegqs just because some donut like the mayor wants.
Personally I go with the experts and not some wife of some former mayor who didn’t get voted in for her expert medical opinion.
No one knows what to do, if they did it would have been done by now; BUT, one thing is certain, 🚨If nothing else, the CV19 crisis has shown how useless most of America’s over 500,000 elected officials and over 25 million bureaucrats and government workers are!😤
That old thing about power corrupts…..Won’t call the legislature in, won’t have open talks with statewide county and city leaders.
His way or the highway.
Seems the word “king” can be used to describe more people than Trump.
Loosen up, Governor. State tax receipts are getting ready to give you a message, hard and loud.
No one wants to take the blame if anything at all goes awry.
The parks & recreation cretins who are removing the hoops from backboards, and swings from swingsets at the park need to be furloughed.
Parks and rec people are employees, hoping to keep their paychecks.
They would lose those paychecks if they refused to follow directives from their bosses who would lose their jobs if they refused to follow directives from the Governor.
Don’t blame people who are not in charge.
And this is precisely why you do NOT allow some people to say things. Yes, there do need to be restrictions on discussions because otherwise you wind up with lysole being sprayed directly into people’s lungs.
“And then I see the disinfectant! Which knocks it out in a minute. One minute! And is there a way we can do something like that, by injection… inside or… almost a cleaning. Because you see it gets in the lungs and it does a tremendous number. So it would be interesting to check that. ”
So, if he wants to check it out, I say, let him wander someone far away from all assistance and do so. And take some chloroquine while you’re at it Don cause “we all know” how good that was right?
The 0.5% death rate estimated in the New York study, if applied to the nation, suggests about 1 1/2 million deaths with the false assumption that everyone will be exposed eventually before a vaccine is available. Call it a million with 67% exposure. Not the worst pandemic of all time, but certainly a huge disaster, should it occur at that rate.
Doing nothing at all in Las Vegas is pretty ridiculous, but allowing people to live normal lives with masks, reasonable separation, and a few other reasonable precautions would go a long way to letting the rest of the nation know how feasible it would be in the long run – and it just might work out better than we think. I’m certainly willing for them to be the guinea pigs, and I applaud their bravery.
Going to see a lot of red state governors facing a very angry public when they tell them to go back to work while the number of cases keep increasing and the number of deaths keep
“Over two thirds of Floridians don’t want to loosen social distancing rules come April 30 despite Republican Gov. Ron DeSantis’s push to do so, a Quinnipiac University poll released Wednesday found.
Seventy-two percent of respondents said that they are opposed to reopening the state once the governor’s stay-at-home order expires at the end of the month, and 76 percent said they are only comfortable returning to daily life if public health officials say it is safe.”
Wuhan restaurants tell a story.
They opened up and remain as empty as if the city were still on lock down.
Let the locals open up and get moving in our states. Keep the tourist and travel on hold until the locals know how things really look, after release from self imprisonment.
And locals spending could help local and state coffers get some sorely needed relief everywhere. Not just the small city of Las Vegas which does not include the “Strip”.
Testing is coming on board fast now, both live infectious and antibody. It can be watched.
Open up the local towns, the rurals and even the local portions of cities.
First off, the New York Times headline about Laura is a lie. I watched her last night and she brought up the positive affect of the drug as did 2 doctors she had on. I’d be more embarrassed about the treatment the Democrat politician in Michigan received after she went public with Hydro/Zpack saving her life. Remember her? She’s been censured by the Democrat party in Michigan. (for speaking the truth! what’s with that, lefties??)
Bruce Feher, I agree. Now let’s do something about that. Like re-elect Drain the Swamp Donald and give him a super majority congress (getting rid of our worthless Nevada ladies!)
Anderson Cooper is a low class narcissist with an agenda. LV Mayor Goodman now knows she would get no quarter from that CNN clown because she won’t parrot the Leftist line. Shame, really. I thought she made some valid points. And slime ball called her, “Ignorant”?
Rinny, I have no idea why the NYC greater area has taken this hit as opposed to the other 48 states. Maybe sunshine is the answer but Vermont, Virginia, even Maryland have quite a low death count, in comparison. California, Texas and Florida all have more people than NYC but the disparity in people catching this virus is stunning. Coupled with the models that proved to be ridiculously wrong, I wouldn’t mind taking a page from Sweden. We can always re-shelter in place.
I wouldn’t trust Sissylack to run a day care center. His answer to Elko borders on Fascist. But that’s what Democrats really are, aren’t you fellas. Fascists at heart. Cause, dog gone it, you are just better, smarter and more qualified to tell the rest of us what to do, right? All we gotta do is just SHUT UP! right?
Remember “Quarantine is when you restrict the movements of Sick People. Tyranny is when you restrict the movement of healthy people”
Gotta be the deep state right?
I mean, Dr. Orange Shitgibbon and his merry band of Fox snake oil salesmen told us for a month, before they near fully stopped, that this stuff was terrific. So terrific that even though they themselves weren’t taking it, it sure was good enough for all the common folk and besides what’s the worst that could happen? That YOU might die? Heck, you’re probably one of them older folks that’s just taking up some sort of space best used by some younger right winger anyhow, haven’t you lived long enough?
That’s going play real well in November among some of trumps supporters.
“highly touted by President Trump should not be taken outside a hospital or clinical trial because of the risk of severe heart problems, the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) warned Friday.
The FDA said it issued the warning because of numerous reports about serious cardiac events and death in patients with COVID-19 receiving hydroxychloroquine and chloroquine, either alone or combined with the antibiotic azithromycin.
“Hydroxychloroquine and chloroquine can cause abnormal heart rhythms … and a dangerously rapid heart rate called ventricular tachycardia,” the agency said. “These risks may increase when these medicines are combined with other medicines … including the antibiotic azithromycin.”
So that whole game changer thing then, maybe Nevada’s governor actually did the right thing by telling people “hey, I’m going do what the MEDICAL experts say and not listen to some guy called the dumbest mother****** in his university classes.
This just gets more and more disturbing and it makes talk of sending people out to get it more reckless and ridiculous.
Apparently it’s not just seniors that are at risk anymore. Maybe now all those republican politicians won’t keep saying that we need to sacrifice the old folks so that our 401ks can regain some ground right?
Doctors across the country are now seeing patients with the virus dying of stokes. And not people they expect to have problems with strokes, 30 and 40 year old Americans with no history of any such problems.
A little scary.
“First off, the New York Times headline about Laura is a lie. I watched her last night and she brought up the positive affect of the drug as did 2 doctors she had on.”
It’s not your fault, Athos, but this shows nothing. The New York Times article was from 4/23 afternoon. You saw Ingraham that evening. It’s entirely possible or even probable that she did pipe down for awhile, but when the rest of the media pointed it out, she decided to maintain credibility with her viewers by trotting out a couple of doctors who may have even had legitimate positive experiences, but it means nothing. Keep in mind that, if they take snake oil or any other drug, 80% of people with Covid 19 will experience either mild or no symptoms, and those with major symptoms recover at different rates.
The problem with anecdotal evidence is that it is often completely misleading. I wondered this when I graduated vet school. At the time, the odds of losing a pet on the table for a spay or neuter were on the order of one in a thousand. There were about 40,000 vets in the U.S. at the time. This means that in theory, there were 40 vets who lost their first spay, 40 lost their second, etc., but imagine the feelings of a pet owner who has their pet die on the table when they know the vet doing the surgery had nearly zero real world experience. Nobody would be able to convince them that the surgery wasn’t botched, even though it is essentially inevitable that a bunch of rookies would see disaster through no fault of their own. Luck and statistics.
Now, there are about a million MDs in the U.S. That means 1,000 doctors have the worst or best day out of a thousand every day. Another 1,000 have the best or worst day out of 500 (second best day out of a thousand). Does it seem a stretch to suspect that a few MDs who have a string of successes with Covid 19 would assign it to how they treated them rather than realizing that a whole bunch of doctors have strings of successes and failures every day just because of the laws of probability? This is why we use the scientific method. Show me a controlled blinded study, and I’ll believe it, but not until then.
If this stuff is so great, there would hundreds of doctors shouting how great it is, not two.
Try to keep in mind that the claim that autism was caused by vaccines has been around for decades, and a lot of people still believe it, despite the fact that the putative link is one of the most heavily studied hypotheses in medicine, and that link clearly does not exist. So were the doctors pushing the theory frauds? Possibly, but many might have been fooled by this statistical phenomenon. By now though, there’s no excuse.
Rin, your 2nd paragraph is poop. Sorry, but Mikey G of the NYTimes should have watched her show (as I have since March 17) because she’s NEVER shied away from French virologist Didier Raoult, and all the success stories of people drowning in their own fluids, taking PLAQUENIL and living. It is anecdotal but it’s hard to argue with someone brought back from the dead. So once again, the paper of record, the old grey lady, has published LIES! How could anyone be against a possible cure, even if unproven (and it is cheap)?? IF WE CAN ONLY SAVE ONE LIFE, ISN’T IT WORTH IT?? (where have a heard THAT before, eh?) it makes me scratch my head…..
THEN I read little p’s contribution to our fair discussion, and the light goes on! The whole purpose of little p’s life (and lefties like him) is to spew bile and hatred for all things Trump. Lefties can not accept that the greatest political machine, and the eminently qualified (plus it was her turn) Hillary Rodham Clinton, got BEAT LIKE A DOG by “Dr. Orange Sthigibbon, the dumbest mother in his class”! 304 to 227! OH that’s gotta hurt, huh babe! So of course it’s all doom and gloom cause even though it was early March that DEMOCRATS told us to go out and party, NOW we all gotta stay hiding in our rooms till ….November 4, boys?
And it’s impossible to point out the rank hypocrisy to these Fascist goons. Prior to all this, Sweden was held up as the MODEL for Social state run Health Care. But wait! Sweden didn’t lock down like everybody else, DID THEY? No iHeart Benefit Concert hosted by Laura B and Michelle O for them, RIGHT? And even lovable Carolyn Goodman had to be savagely put in her place by little Anderson Cooper, didn’t she? What a vicious hit job he did on her.
Oh, and you just gotta love that WaPo article cited by annie. 5 stroke victims age 33 to 41 (out of 800,000+) and we’re just ALL GONNA DIE! Georgia opened today, fellas. And Sweden may be totally out of the woods in 2 weeks. Meanwhile, all this hunkering down in our safe spaces is prolonging the inevitable. We need to go back outside! And real evidence that this whole thing has run it’s course is just around the corner.
Wanna sure bet? Put abortions in the “non-essential” category, and watch how fast this country opens!
“If Hospitals can handle the load, end the lockdowns” Headline of a recent article I read.
So here is the $64,000 question to all our valley hospitals: Can you handle the load? The facts and figures for this question should be public information so that an informed public can make up it’s own damn mind.
In Las Vegas it looks like … https://www.reviewjournal.com/local/hospital-ers-underwhelmed-as-coronavirus-fears-keep-patients-away-2014793/?fbclid=IwAR3bRHYjVf-xVRSPRM12qZ1sSrwXjo5p_cTlNzT-Pz_GtqTQmSjWRoEwZQw
“I can’t believe I have to say this, but don’t drink bleach”
If all you read is the headline….you are being mislead.
And that explains a lot.
Here is a reasonable strategy for moving back to some kind of normalcy. This epidemiologist was interviewed on Fox News and Bill Maher agrees with him. Perhaps a genuine meeting of the minds.
Doomsayers all say he’s an idiot because: (And these control freaks got the WHO on their side)
“At this point in the pandemic, there is not enough evidence about the effectiveness of antibody-mediated immunity to guarantee the accuracy of an ‘immunity passport’ or ‘risk-free certificate,’ ” the WHO warned.
“People who assume that they are immune to a second infection because they have received a positive test result may ignore public health advice. The use of such certificates may therefore increase the risks of continued transmission.”
See that? they are saying “this guy is an idiot don’t listen to him do what we say or die”
First of all, are there really people out there that are so stupid (or clueless, to be kind) that you have to tell them to NOT DRINK BLEACH OR LYSOL?? If so, I’ve lived too long. Actually, if so, than we need more Darwinism at work!!
The same can be said for anyone dumb enough to believe the WHO (and I’m talking to YOU Billy Gates!) or anything they say at this time.
Thanks for the video, Rinny. It appears that Maher and the good Doctor are SERIOUS about a solution to this lock down pandemic that isn’t driven by politics. It was shocking to hear Maher say we can’t hide from germs and need to let our immune system do it’s job (I’m paraphrasing, of course)
Maybe I’ll be back to work in a couple of weeks (instead of a couple of months!)
Interesting article, Thomas, thank you! (I definitely missed that one). And although they don’t give the actual capacity of our Vegas Valley Hospitals, the tone of the article suggested to me that we are significantly under capacity. Did I read that wrong?
and coupled with ““Now we’re just having slow days,” he said, adding that the hospital has passed its peak for patients needing to be hospitalized for COVID-19.” It seems like it’s time to implement phase 1, wouldn’t you think?
Paging Governor Sissylack! Paging Governor Sissylack! We have a little light reading for you!!
Dr. Katz was quoted here more than a month ago. https://4thst8.wordpress.com/2020/03/22/is-the-lockdown-of-schools-and-businesses-creating-more-problems-than-it-solves/
And WHO has deleted their tweet and clarified what they were saying.
Inadvertently giving support for Dr. Katz position, while taking the wind out of NPR’s (and most of the hyped up media) sails.
I forgot about Dr Katz article. And that was only a little more than a month ago. Too bad Trump can’t get him on his team!
And if I hear one more “how many deaths do you need for 1 job” I’m going to INSIST that Planned parenthood be classified as NON-ESSENTIAL!