More woes for the electric ‘car makers’ that Nevada is backing

First, Faraday Future has seen a Chinese court freeze $182 million in assets tied to its chief investor due to missed payments, then Tesla Motors missed its projections for car production in the latest quarter, causing analysts to downgrade its stock.

Nevada’s governor and lawmakers placed a bet on Faraday Future to the tune of $215 million in tax abatements and credits to entice it to build an electric car factory at the Apex industrial complex in North Las Vegas. The bet also promised to spend $120 million on infrastructure improvements at the site — water, rail and widening of Interstate 15.

The governor and lawmakers doubled down on Tesla.

In a special session in 2014 the Nevada Legislature handed Tesla $1.3 billion in tax breaks and credits in return for the company promising to build a $5 billion, 10 million-square-foot battery factory near Sparks. Its capital expenditures so for amount to $1.1 billion, well short of the projected $3 billion.

Projections were for the battery gigafactory to be employing 1,700 workers by the end of 2016, but the latest progress report shows there are only 477, even though the state has shelled out $59 million in transferable tax credits.

Is there any way Tesla will employ 4,700 at the factory by the end of this year and 6,500 by the end of 2018?

Also, there are plans for 10 new battery gigafactories in the works.

Anyone care to bet on whether Nevada taxpayers will see a return on their investments?

Site of Faraday “Future” manufacturing plant. (AP pix)

 

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43 comments on “More woes for the electric ‘car makers’ that Nevada is backing

  1. Steve says:

    Add to this Volvo Cars.
    Note: Ford sold their Volvo division to Geely, a Chinese outfit. At the time the Volvo cars division was tiny in comparison to the rest of Ford.
    Volvo (sweden) is into heavy machinery and uses traditional engine designs to this day.

    Volvo cars, Geely announced they will be selling only hybrid and electric powered cars, going forward.
    In the face of Tesla’s problems (see their stock today -$27.00 https://stocktwits.com/symbol/TSLA)
    And Faraday’s non performance……

    Does anyone really believe the future is the STANDARD offering like Tesla is going with?|

    And for those who still buy the hype, total manufacturing costs of the product and the fuel to power them cause MORE TOTAL POLLUTION than today’s standard heavy SUV!
    Oh, suuuurrrre! the owner/operator FEEEEELS GREAT they are spending so little and outputting almost nothing while OPERATING these very dirty vehicles, but they should KNOW they only shift the pollution from their own hands to others and by spending money to support this FARCE, are MORE guilty than that that SUV owner!

    In addition to all this, the Geely outfit is little better than Faraday Future. Ford dumped a losing operation off on them and they are under severe pressure to perform.

    I have some good contacts, dating all the way back to high school, who are very well connected in the auto industry.
    Tesla is a plastic, fantastic, toy with a really cool center console. All it’s buyers actually accept 24/7 remote monitoring. Tesla knows exactly where every single one of their cars ar at any given second of every single day. Add to this Tesla actually loses money on every single sale!

    So, it appears Nevada only got screwed by two out of three bad operations!

    woo-hoo

  2. Steve says:

    And the hits just keep coming!
    It’s almost like the Owens Magnetic and Baker Electric days are back with a vengeance!

    Mississippi demands $6.4M back from electric car maker, CEO
    BY JEFF AMY
    Associated Press
    Mississippi’s state auditor on Wednesday demanded that a troubled electric car maker or its leader repay $4.9 million in state and local aid the company received, plus $1.5 million of interest.

    http://www.miamiherald.com/news/business/article159781304.html

  3. Rincon says:

    Seems to me that for the most part, the market is doing its thing. Part of capitalism is conning buyers, suppliers and governments into granting concessions. Nevada’s government seems to have chosen poorly.

  4. Steve says:

    C’mon, In the grand scheme of things, Nevada hasn’t had to pay actual money to Faraday…..and Tesla IS producing SOMETHING…if not much…..
    I think Mississippi got a better screwing, Rincon. After all, they ARE demanding their money back!

  5. Steve says:

    Pretty much sums it up. And nothing has changed since this was published.

    “The fit and finish of a Tesla, especially a $140,000 Tesla, is quite frankly embarrassing. Panels with gaps, cheap plastic components, a decade-old Mercedes shifter, and none of the high-end amenities of luxury cars. The doors are, quite frankly, crap. The leather is medium grade at best. The seats are terrible (disclosure: I have not sat in the brand new Model S seats, though they are still one piece with no power-adjustable lumbar, etc).
    When you’re driving a Tesla, it messes with your head because of the immediate power and only one gear of drive. Instant. Power. It’s like a magnetic roller coaster launch. But when you get over that, there is something missing, because it feels like you’re driving a go-kart. It feels like someone strapped bare bones onto an electric motor and said, off you go.”

    http://bgr.com/2015/01/14/tesla-tsla-sales-market-data-model-s-d/

  6. Steve says:

    Tesla “Head Banger”

    “In the test, the seat belt in Tesla’s Model S was not effective and could lead to the driver’s head striking the steering wheel hard through the air bag, according to the report.”

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-tesla-models-idUSKBN19R08Y

  7. Steve says:

    But, but GigaFactory! blah blah blah.

    “Tesla blames battery pack shortfall as Q2 deliveries meet low-end of guidance”
    https://www.ft.com/content/183ba127-98ca-337a-be8a-dad64fc360a1

    Pump and Dump, Patrick!

    You must be long TSLA, I feel for you.

    Laugh!

  8. Steve says:

    NO!
    Say it ain’t so!

    “A female engineer who came forward with claims of harassment says she was fired in retaliation. But now other women have voiced similar concerns”

    https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/jul/05/tesla-sexual-harassment-discrimination-engineer-fired?CMP=share_btn_tw

  9. Steve says:

    Ha Ha!

  10. Steve says:

    The TSLA Solar Roof is vapor but guess what?
    People are giving them money because…. Tesla!

    Dark clouds are forming and bright sun shining on competitors, Capitalism RAWKS!

    https://www.curbed.com/2017/5/30/15710380/tesla-solar-roof-competitors-forward-labs

    Forward Labs claim that its roof is capable of producing nearly double the energy of other roofing products, while costing as much as 33 percent less than Tesla’s design. According to its website, the Forward Labs solar roof gets you 19 watts per square foot of energy density, at about $3.25 per watt and installed in two to three days.

  11. deleted says:

    Tesla Stock price in December $200~ Stock price today $327.

    http://www.nasdaq.com/symbol/tsla/stock-chart

  12. Rincon says:

    Difficult to find a recent, more successful auto startup.

  13. Rincon says:

    Let’s see…Elon Musk founded Paypal, SpaceX, Tesla and the much aligned Solar City (the second largest in the U.S.). Coming up: Hyperloop, Open AI, the Boring Company, and Neuralink. The “loser” is still worth $16 billion. So Steve, your point is?

  14. Steve says:

    Patrick rawng……..again
    6-23-2017 TSLA $383.45
    Down another 4.85% to 311.10 today after hours.

    Plummet, blamed on a battery shortage, they make their own batteries! It is to laugh.

    Same as Toms, TSLA is becoming a user, more than a producer.

    Now, before you go thinkin’ I am Musk averse. Think again. I own a good chunk of PYPL and it has been good. And landing a rocket on a platform in the ocean is a great feat of engineering.

    My point is not Musk. It is the lousy build quality of the Tesla product and same as Tom wrote about the gigafactory. Tesla is claiming they don’t have enough batteries but they make their own so they are being disingenuous and really are blaming themselves for their lack of batteries. Investors are responding.
    With this drop TSLA is no longer the “biggest car company by market cap”
    And Tesla hasn’t outsold any other manufacturer, ever.

    Yup, Rincon, a totally qualified “success”. If you base success on how many people you screw over and how much government pork you can wrangle!

  15. Anonymous says:

    5 years ago Tesla stock $30
    4 years ago Tesla stock $120
    3 years ago Tesla stock $210
    2 years ago Tesla stock $260
    1 year ago Tesla stock $215
    As of today Tesla stock $311

    “On Tuesday, Consumer Reports released its latest annual auto brand report card. Even though German and Japanese brands dominate the top of the list, Tesla managed to claw its way into the top 10 with an 8th place finish.

    In just its first year on the list, Tesla managed to become the top ranked US brand on the venerable publication’s list based on the strength of its improved reliability and sky high owner satisfaction. In addition, Tesla took home the prize for the brand with the highest road test score.”

  16. Steve says:

    When you sell only to those who are willing to buy site unseen, your approval rates are a certain positive.
    It Tesla had stock available to purchase off a lot, they would have a much different rating.

    Totally qualified.

    Almost forgot this about PYPL….it wasn’t so much founded as it was a way for Ebay to hold onto it’s customers.
    Carl Icahn forced Ebay to break up with PYPL. As a consequence, you can own stock in both and I do.

  17. Rincon says:

    “Yup, Rincon, a totally qualified “success”. If you base success on how many people you screw over and how much government pork you can wrangle!”

    I feel like we’ve switched conversations. Are you talking about Musk or Trump?

  18. deleted says:

    “More than nine out of 10 Tesla owners would buy their cars again, leading the industry in Consumer Reports’ Annual Owner Satisfaction Survey.

    The survey, released today, found that 91 percent of Tesla owners said they would “definitely” buy their vehicle again if they had a chance to do things over. That’s an industry-best score by a significant margin, beating second-place Porsche by 7 percentage points.”

    https://home.autonews.com/clickshare/authenticateUserSubscription.do?CSProduct=autonews-premium&CSAuthReq=1:873651672240381:AID:CBE44D1F90E6A6E27221933154710FE7&AID=/20161222/RETAIL03/161229935&title=Tesla%20dominates%20owner%20satisfaction%20survey%2C%20Consumer%20Reports%20says&CSTargetURL=http://www.autonews.com/article/20161222/RETAIL03/161229935/tesla-dominates-owner-satisfaction-survey-consumer-reports-says

  19. Rincon says:

    BTW, for those who claim there’s no point in taxing the rich because they can’t possibly pay the national debt all by themselves, it appears that the top 10% in our country are worth about $31 trillion, while our debt is at about $19 trillion. I certainly don’t intend for the 10% to pay off the debt by themselves. I’m just shooting down another Conservative myth.
    https://dqydj.com/net-worth-in-the-united-states-zooming-in-on-the-top-centiles/

  20. Rincon says:

    “Plummet, blamed on a battery shortage, they make their own batteries! It is to laugh.”

    I thought I’d fact check this one: “It certainly didn’t help that Tesla delivered only 47,100 of the older Model S battery-sedans and Model X SUVs during the first half of 2017, on the low side of its 47,000 to 50,000-unit forecast. Tesla put the blame on production problems involving the new 100 kilowatt-hour battery pack used in its longest-range models, such as the Model S P100d, rather than weakening demand.” http://www.nbcnews.com/business/autos/tough-week-tesla-after-safety-downgrade-sinking-stocks-n780166

    OMG! Tesla made it’s projection by 100 units and it’s a great disaster. On what planet?

  21. Steve says:

    “Are you talking about Musk or Trump?”
    Neither.

    I am talking about TESLA.

    GM’s June total sales were 243,155 vehicles, down about 5 percent from the same period last year.

    Ford Motor Company U.S. Sales Decrease 4 Percent To 208,440 Units In February 2017

    Tesla’s 2016 Deliveries = 76,230+ Vehicles, Production = 83,922 Vehicles

    Yup, when you have buy it sight unseen you are going to be very forgiving when you answer a survey.

  22. Steve says:

    “OMG! Tesla made it’s projection by 100 units and it’s a great disaster. On what planet?”

    That is the low end of their projections, that makes it bad in the investing world.
    Meanwhile an honest drop in year over year sales is expected in durable goods.

  23. Steve says:

    In fact, manufacturing an electric vehicle generates more carbon emissions than building a conventional car, mostly because of its battery, the Union of Concerned Scientists has found.

    https://www.wired.com/2016/03/teslas-electric-cars-might-not-green-think/

  24. Steve says:

    The free ride is over.

    “A growing number of states are imposing new fees on electric vehicles as officials scrounge for ways to pay for infrastructure projects they say are long overdue.
    At least five states, including California, passed bills targeting the cars this year, bringing the total number with fees on the books to 13.

    In addition to the fees, the Sierra Club counted seven states that have eliminated rebates for purchasing an electric vehicle. Coplon-Newfield said sales plummeted in Georgia after the state enacted new ownership fees and got rid of the incentives.”

    http://www.cnbc.com/2017/07/03/states-yank-electric-car-aid-add-new-fees-to-pay-for-infrastructure.html

  25. Steve says:

    On this planet, Rincon.

    The analyst cited how Tesla’s second quarter deliveries number of approximately 22,000 cars missed his forecast of 23,500 and the Wall Street consensus of 24,200. As a result, he lowered his annual growth estimate for the Model S and Model X cars to 5 percent through 2021 from his previous forecast of 13 percent per year.

    http://www.cnbc.com/2017/07/05/goldman-predicts-tesla-shares-will-get-cut-in-half-on-plateauing-model-s-sales.html

  26. deleted says:

    “Ford Motor and General Motors shares dropped after both reported weaker-than-expected April vehicle sales, continuing a shift to a slower sales pace and raising concerns about consumer spending.

    Ford shares plunged nearly 4 percent to a 21-month low after its April sales fell 7.1 percent, with demand soft for its passenger cars and unexpected weakness in light trucks. GM’s stock dropped 2.7 percent, after its sales were down 5.8 percent. Sales were based on one fewer selling day this year than last year.

    Toyota also reported that sales fell 4.4 percent with the Lexus brand dropping 11.1 percent, and Fiat Chrysler shares fell more than 5 percent after it reported sales were down 7 percent.”

    http://www.cnbc.com/2017/05/02/gm-ford-stocks-stocks-slammed-as-poor-sales-raise-red-flag-about-economy.html

  27. Steve says:

    Yup, as I said, durable goods get the short end of the economic stick.
    Meanwhile Tesla dropped 20%.

    Gotta wonder how Patrick “missed” this from the same site!
    “Tesla sinks 20% from high—entering bear market territory—as concerns about ‘bubble stock’ mount”
    http://www.cnbc.com/2017/07/06/tesla-shares-plunge-12-percent-this-week-on-disappointing-deliveries.html

    Hear that? It’s the sound made when a bubble implodes!

  28. deleted says:

    5 years ago Tesla stock $30
    4 years ago Tesla stock $120
    3 years ago Tesla stock $210
    2 years ago Tesla stock $260
    1 year ago Tesla stock $215
    As of today Tesla stock $311

  29. Steve says:

    Repetition is your response…..

    Back at ya, Patrick.

    “Tesla sinks 20% from high—entering bear market territory—as concerns about ‘bubble stock’ mount”

    Remember the “dot com” bubble?

  30. Steve says:

    Based on TESLA’s performance so far in the US, “Tesla will get the system installed and working 100 days from contract signature or it is free.” Rings as free is the final price!

    And, since they blame their own lack of batteries for failing to meet expectations here, just where are the batteries coming from for this?

    100 days from now, huh? Guess we will know in a few months!

    http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/south-australia-to-announce-tesla-as-backer-of-worlds-largest-battery-20170707-gx6mhy.html

  31. Rincon says:

    “In fact, manufacturing an electric vehicle generates more carbon emissions than building a conventional car, mostly because of its battery, the Union of Concerned Scientists has found.”

    Wow, Steve, you’re just like all of the famous Conservative talking heads! You’ve selected only the parts you want us to see. Here’s the quote from your own article about the findings of the Union of Concerned Scientists:
    “In fact, manufacturing an electric vehicle generates more carbon emissions than building a conventional car, mostly because of its battery, the Union of Concerned Scientists has found.
    “We’re shifting pollution, and in the process we’re hoping that it doesn’t have the environmental impact,” says Abraham. He believes that when you add all the environmental impacts, they still come out in favor of electric vehicles. (The Union of Concerned Scientists agrees; it found that even when you add in emissions from battery manufacturing, EVs generate half the emissions of a conventional car over the course of its life.)”

    HALF THE EMISSIONS! Might want to read more carefully next time.

  32. Rincon says:

    Arguing over Tesla’s stock price is ridiculous in the first place. No matter whether it’s been going up or down lately, Tesla’s total stock value is almost as great as GM’s. A drop just makes the price a little more realistic, but can hardly be equated with a death rattle.

  33. Steve says:

    “Wow, Steve, you’re just like all of the famous Conservative talking heads! You’ve selected only the parts you want us to see. ”

    Bullshit, I provided the link.Which, THIS TIME, you actually read. Now, go and read the others from those days ago.

    Comparing companies with such large differences in sales is wrong, but that is what many are doing.
    So there we are.

  34. Steve says:

    “He believes” And the UCS fails to factor in the manufacture of the rest of the vehicle, the manufacture of the fuel used to charge the battery and the fuels used manufacture those fuels.

    TOTAL life not PARTIAL, Rincon.

    That is what you don’t like about the other links I showed you. You jumped right into this because it SEEMS to support your preconceived beliefs.
    In fact, it clearly exposes your own bias.

  35. deleted says:

    Rincon:

    The National Debt is only a cause for concern during democratic administration, or during those times when democrats control the Congress.

    Otherwise, we got plenty of borrowed money for the military, and subsidies for oil companies, and coal companies, and other billionaires of destruction.

  36. Rincon says:

    When you post a link, I will be the one to choose whether I will or will not read it. I will not waste my time with a flurry of links that have your message buried somewhere inside without any guidance as to what I’m even looking for. If I count correctly, you’ve posted 14 links on this page. I still work for a living and do not have that kind of time. If you want me to take things seriously, make your statement, provide your link and if it’s a long article, some hint of what I’m looking for would be appreciated.

  37. Rincon says:

    “He believes” You provided him as a source, not me.

    “And the UCS fails to factor in the manufacture of the rest of the vehicle, the manufacture of the fuel used to charge the battery and the fuels used manufacture those fuels.” Is this just your unsupported assertion or do you have evidence that it’s true?

  38. iShrug says:

    Meanwhile, in Australia, Tesla promises that their battery storage facility will be completed in 100 days — or it’s free.
    Tesla building world’s largest battery system
    http://www.seekingalpha.com/news/3277394

  39. Steve says:

    EVERY “hint” you get is sure to be IGNORED, just like you now try to ignore the reality of the pollution shift I have constantly “hinted” at!

    it is to laugh.

  40. Steve says:

    ” Is this just your unsupported assertion or do you have evidence that it’s true?”

    As long as you insist on ignoring the “hints” I keep giving you and refusing to read the links, then you will continue to be a blind follower of your preconceived notions.

  41. Steve says:

    From the horses mouth, Elon himself tweets this WSJ article sighting NEED 4 CASH NOW.

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